Using DNA Matches

[darkerhorse]

I noticed some "exact matches" for "Mattia" were actually "Di Mattia". Have you tried that surname too?

[darkerhorse]

And for "De Mattia".

I guess "exact match" is more robust that I thought.

[MarcuccioV]

I noticed some "exact matches" for "Mattia" were actually "Di Mattia". Have you tried that surname too?

Yes. Both spellings. Nothing definitive either way.

Oddly, where my DNA matches are concerned, I have only one that has a "Mattia" in their tree (at least the public trees I can access) -- Zero "Di" or "De" Mattias. Strange, but true. The one that does is not a close match and I cannot find the connection.

[MarcuccioV]

And for "De Mattia".

I guess "exact match" is more robust that I thought.

I checked the georaphic distribution for Mattia, Di Mattia and De Mattia. The coverage is almost identical for all three spellings.

[darkerhorse]

In Italy, it appears that Giacomo (exact match) was most prevalent in Sicily until 2000 when it became most prevalent in Lombardia (north) with Sicily second. Of course, that's based only on digitized records.

Back in the 1800s, a given Giacomo was more likely to reside in Sicily than in any place else in Italy. Prior counts are too small to infer from.

I would be concerned that Rome has been such a prominent destination (voluntary and not) for all types of people from all types of places over time that it's nearly impossible to trace in-migration using logical reasoning alone. Having said that, if it was my family I would still play those name games and look for connections.

I was once able to identify a migration flow from an area in Italy to an area in New York State, which helped locate an individual from that area in Italy who also had migrated to that area in NY state in that time period.

Is it possible to test your reasoning and methods on a known individual, family, or town migration?

[darkerhorse]

Have you tried this? Even more spelling variations.

https://hopperrr.github.io/surnames_heatmap/

By the way, I forgot this topic was originally about DNA matches, maybe that technique will open doors.

[darkerhorse]

Have you tried weighting the results by dividing by a population (or other) estimate?

The frequency of Giacomo in Caltagirone is probably even more notable given the size of the population, though you've already accounted for that over-representation due to their patron saint.

[MarcuccioV]

In Italy, it appears that Giacomo (exact match) was most prevalent in Sicily until 2000 when it became most prevalent in Lombardia (north) with Sicily second. Of course, that's based only on digitized records.

Back in the 1800s, a given Giacomo was more likely to reside in Sicily than in any place else in Italy. Prior counts are too small to infer from.

I would be concerned that Rome has been such a prominent destination (voluntary and not) for all types of people from all types of places over time that it's nearly impossible to trace in-migration using logical reasoning alone. Having said that, if it was my family I would still play those name games and look for connections.

I was once able to identify a migration flow from an area in Italy to an area in New York State, which helped locate an individual from that area in Italy who also had migrated to that area in NY state in that time period.

Is it possible to test your reasoning and methods on a known individual, family, or town migration?

I'm still playing those various name games. I agree on Giacomo, as it rarely (if at all) came up during my paper trail research. The same goes for Vito, which also seems more common in Sicily. The only other given male first names I have to go on (by paper trail, anyway) are his father, Vito, grandfather Giacomo and GGf Luigi. In addition, Vito had a brother named Lorenzo and Giacomo a brother named Giuseppe (I'm purposely ignoring sisters). I have no info on any brothers for Luigi. No names repeat on paper. Even my grandfather's name of Agostino is no help (although it isn't quite as rare in Valmontone as Vito or Giacomo). He was the only male child of 7 so I assume that name had some significance (he WAS born in August, so I suppose that is a possibility) but except for the direct paternal line any of the names could be connected to the family of the spouse, somehow. Since the paper trail is so limited timewise, I can't even research that to the extent I would like to, but none of the male names repeat in a connectable way so far.

There were some unusual female names among my grandfather's sisters (Armida, Attilia, Ersilia, Gentilina, Vespina -- the only common one was Maria) that again are virtually unknown to Valmontone. My next step is to research those & see if THEY mean anything or tie to a location. So far my research has not found any of them in ANY commune I've checked. Again, they could come from a spouse's family. Either that or they just pulled unusual names out of a hat but that logic seems shaky at best...

[MarcuccioV]

BTW, my grandfather had 3 sons, Luciano (my mom's twin) & Nello #1 & Nello #2. Again, not names associated with Valmontone in a noticeable way. My mom was named for HIS mom, Modesta.

[darkerhorse]

Have you checked these sources:

https://www.familysearch.org/search/cat ... agirone%22

I'm not sure how they'd help.

Such records for Valmontone will be more valuable, if and when digitized.

For example, I've seen Riveli records pre-1800 which indicate the property owner hailed from another place. You may get lucky and be able to trace your family, and/or find a Sicilian (or other) place of origin recorded.

When does your paper trail end again - 1870s?

[MarcuccioV]

Here's where the names have all led (so far):

Armida -- from a Tasso opera, an Arabic sorceress
Attilia -- 2 origins, Etruscan and Turkish
Ersillia -- Greek origin, possibly related to ancient Etruscan
Gentilina -- Hebrew Jewish origin
Vespina -- Maid in the Italian opera 'Veremonda'

Luciano -- Italo/Latin for "light"
Nello -- Hebrew for 'God is my judge'; may have Greek usage

Only commonality I can see is that there really is none, aside from a Mediterranean component...

[MarcuccioV]

Have you checked these sources:

https://www.familysearch.org/search/cat ... agirone%22

I'm not sure how they'd help.

Such records for Valmontone will be more valuable, if and when digitized.

For example, I've seen Riveli records pre-1800 which indicate the property owner hailed from another place. You may get lucky and be able to trace your family, and/or find a Sicilian (or other) place of origin recorded.

When does your paper trail end again - 1870s?

No records prior to 1871. At that time there were 2 Mattia families in Valmontone, most likely connected prior to those records as I can't tie them together definitively. We were tenant farmers, they were cattle ranchers. Those 2 families expanded exponentially during the years of record, so they both could not have been very deeply rooted in the area.

I found a catasto from 1849, but it really didn't reveal much. There were a few names I was able to gather, but with no way to connect them, they don't really help as they are lone puzzle pieces that don't fit anywhere.

[MarcuccioV]

BTW, my sole DNA match (with a viewable tree) that has a "Mattia" isn't really helping. Her name was Pasqualina and I found her birth record in Calabritto, Avellino (Naples) where a pocket of Mattia's are. No common first names for my family, but several that were common to the "rancher" Mattia's of Valmontone. So the connection could be coincidental. The match is relatively weak (9cM) and I recognize no other names in the tree.

It's really odd that no other Mattia's have bubbled up from my DNA matches. But that seems to be par-for-the-course as far as my Italian side goes -- there are very few matches which include surnames from either of my grandparent's families.

I scoured the Antenati records for Catalgirone which is how I found the prominence of Giacomo there...

[darkerhorse]

Here's where the names have all led (so far):

Armida -- from a Tasso opera, an Arabic sorceress
Attilia -- 2 origins, Etruscan and Turkish
Ersillia -- Greek origin, possibly related to ancient Etruscan
Gentilina -- Hebrew Jewish origin
Vespina -- Maid in the Italian opera 'Veremonda'

Luciano -- Italo/Latin for "light"
Nello -- Hebrew for 'God is my judge'; may have Greek usage

Only commonality I can see is that there really is none, aside from a Mediterranean component...

My Grandfather had a cousin named Attilio in Sicily, but I never heard of any of the other names in Sicily.

Note Rome is a cosmopolitan city par excellence.

[darkerhorse]

Have you searched marriage allegati, which can include transcribed records of births, deceased parents, spouses, etc.