V as in G?

[darkerhorse]

Do Italians from Naples ever pronounce "g" as "v"?

I've heard "b" pronounced "v" by Sicilians but never "g" as "v" by anyone.

[PippoM]

Do you have some example?

[MarcuccioV]

Do Italians from Naples ever pronounce "g" as "v"?

I've heard "b" pronounced "v" by Sicilians but never "g" as "v" by anyone.

I know where you're coming from with this (the census doc for Guarino family).

Our dialect sometimes has a lazy 'G' that when spoken emotionally or quickly can lean towards that 'V' sound, and yes, we have a relatively recent connection to Campania, so it may be a product of that (plus a non-Italian census taker not accustomed to linguistic quirks).

I didn't really think about it when I saw the census post, but it DOES make a little bit of sense, now...

[MarcuccioV]

An example in our "burino" dialect would be 'vuarda' for 'guarda' (look). it's not a distinct 'v' sound but kind of a lazy 'g' giving way to a 'v'...

[darkerhorse]

Yes, I was referring to the census record.

The census taker also appears to have butchered surnames of the brother-in-law and lodgers living at the same address.

[darkerhorse]

Do you have some example?

In a U.S. census record the surname "Guarino" belonging to a recent immigrant from Naples was written as "Varine".

The adults couldn't speak English and were illiterate.

It also appears that a brother-in-law named Rafaele Caiazza was listed as "Rafele Giuatze". Maybe the "G" was intended to be hard - "Ghi-uat-ze" - would sound close to Caiazza.

Do Napolese ever pronounce a hard "C" as a hard "G"? If not, then it's just a language barrier.

[MarcuccioV]

Do you have some example?

Do Napolese ever pronounce a hard "C" as a hard "G"? If not, then it's just a language barrier.

I have heard that also on occasion among our paisani...

An example would be 'Garlo' for the name 'Carlo' or 'Goncetta' for 'Concetta'.

Again, just a lazy dialect.

[darkerhorse]

So, Caiazza could sound like Giuatze (with a hard G).

I know in Sicilian "azza" would sound like "aht-tsa".

[darkerhorse]

Hard "C" takes more mouth effort than hard "G".

[darkerhorse]

"Gabone" for "cafone" might be another example.

Radio talk show legend Bob G's family was from Naples and that's how he pronounced it on air.

[MarcuccioV]

Hard "C" takes more mouth effort than hard "G".

Exactly. Even my wife says "Concetta" (my Gm's niece's name) sounds odd, but "Goncetta" is what she's always heard phonetically...

[darkerhorse]

In Sanskrit each letter is defined/pronounced as a mouth position.

For example, "N" is one mouth position from "M".

[MarcuccioV]

Makes sense.

[AngelaGrace56]

Do Italians from Naples ever pronounce "g" as "v"?

I've heard "b" pronounced "v" by Sicilians but never "g" as "v" by anyone.

I know where you're coming from with this (the census doc for Guarino family).

Our dialect sometimes has a lazy 'G' that when spoken emotionally or quickly can lean towards that 'V' sound, and yes, we have a relatively recent connection to Campania, so it may be a product of that (plus a non-Italian census taker not accustomed to linguistic quirks).

I didn't really think about it when I saw the census post, but it DOES make a little bit of sense, now...

In the our dialect the letter “g” was basically silent, and often dropped altogether. For example, for words, as mentioned, such as “look” we just said “uarda” (pronounced “wuarda”).

When I saw the census translation the other day, at the time, I wondered whether the surname possibly had been written down phonetically on a separate piece of paper for the census writer and the u was possibly misread as a v. Now, after reading through what has been written here, I’ve changed my thinking a little, and what Mark has said about the letter “v” makes perfect sense. One thing though is that I grew up with both the Napolitano dialect and our own dialect/s, and I don’t recall them (i.e. i Napolitani) ever saying “varda” for guarda, but, they may have. Although, I remember that while we said “(w)uaglione” for boy (ragazzo) they clearly said “guaglione” and whenever I hear the song “Guaglione” sung by a Napolitano, it is also clearly pronounced “Guaglione”.

(We also use “v” not “b” and “r” not “d” in a lot of words. I can relate to words beginning with “C” and “G” being confused when spoken. I also remember the letters “t” and “d” very hard to distingish, especially when my father spoke because of his strong accent

Angela