Clarification on Italian birth records

[onslo234]

Hello everyone-

I am looking for birth records for my grandfather. I know his date of birth and the only thing I have for a location is "Milano." I don't know if that means the city or the state.

So I figured a safe bet would be to review the state records, which I found on Familysearch. My question: Is the 'Ufficio Dello Stato Civile (Milan)" contain all births in the state of Milano?

I reviewed these documents for the DOB but nothing was coming up. Not sure where to look next. Any tips would be appreciated.

It is possible that he was baptized at Duomo Di Milano. Where would I find those records? I know some parish records exist but I'm not even sure what parish that would be.

[AngelaGrace56]

If you are looking at this film here: https://www.familysearch.org/search/cat ... %20Library

Then you are looking at the town (comune) of Milano, province of Milano, which is huge.

Here you will find other towns in the province of Milano, starting from 1866: https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/archive/?archivio=184 They contain various types of records.

If you give us more information, we may be able to help you to narrow down your grandfather's town of birth. Can you post the documents you have giving his place and year of birth.


Angela

[onslo234]

If you are looking at this film here: https://www.familysearch.org/search/cat ... %20Library

Then you are looking at the town (comune) of Milano, province of Milano, which is huge.

Here you will find other towns in the province of Milano, starting from 1866: https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/archive/?archivio=184 They contain various types of records.

If you give us more information, we may be able to help you to narrow down your grandfather's town of birth. Can you post the documents you have giving his place and year of birth.


Angela

Thank you for your response.

The record is a USCIS naturalization document where my grandfather is listed as a minor. It lists his place of birth as "Milano." His DOB is listed as March 8, 1909. To makes matters more difficult, his father was Russian with a Russian surname. So I am not entirely sure how it would even appear in the Italian records.

So was there not a centralized records for each province that would contain all births occurring in all of the towns within? I'm guessing probably not..

[AngelaGrace56]

Thank you for your response.

The record is a USCIS naturalization document where my grandfather is listed as a minor. It lists his place of birth as "Milano." His DOB is listed as March 8, 1909. To makes matters more difficult, his father was Russian with a Russian surname. So I am not entirely sure how it would even appear in the Italian records.

So was there not a centralized records for each province that would contain all births occurring in all of the towns within? I'm guessing probably not..

So was he Italian or Russian? If he was Italian, then he would be on the list of male babies that was compiled at the end of each year and sent to the State Archives in Milano to be added to the military draft lists for call-up purposes later on. (The state archives would have a copy of each birth record (male and female) but then you would need to know the birth town. Not so with the draft lists though - all the towns were on the same list in order of year of birth. I think I may have seen draft lists mentioned on Family Search so I'll take another look.




Edit to Add: I've just checked, there are draft lists included on Family Search but unfortunately they stop at 1908 and then proceed again later on. The records are also locked and need to be viewed at a Family Search Centre or affiliated library. Are you absolutely sure of the year of birth? What was your grandfather's name? (You could write to the State Archives in Milan asking for his Liste di Leva and any other supporting documents, including his birth record. You need to be sure of his year of birth though.)

Angela

[onslo234]

Thank you for your response.

The record is a USCIS naturalization document where my grandfather is listed as a minor. It lists his place of birth as "Milano." His DOB is listed as March 8, 1909. To makes matters more difficult, his father was Russian with a Russian surname. So I am not entirely sure how it would even appear in the Italian records.

So was there not a centralized records for each province that would contain all births occurring in all of the towns within? I'm guessing probably not..

So was he Italian or Russian? If he was Italian, then he would be on the list of male babies that was compiled at the end of each year and sent to the State Archives in Milano to be added to the military draft lists for call-up purposes later on. (The state archives would have a copy of each birth record (male and female) but then you would need to know the birth town. Not so with the draft lists though - all the towns were on the same list in order of year of birth. I think I may have seen draft lists mentioned on Family Search so I'll take another look.




Edit to Add: I've just checked, there are draft lists included on Family Search but unfortunately they stop at 1908 and then proceed again later on. The records are also locked and need to be viewed at a Family Search Centre or affiliated library. Are you absolutely sure of the year of birth? What was your grandfather's name? (You could write to the State Archives in Milan asking for his Liste di Leva and any other supporting documents, including his birth record. You need to be sure of his year of birth though.)

Angela

He would have been legally Russian since his father was Russian. His mother was Italian. That's a great idea, though (draft lists).

I think I will need to just go town by town and review the date of birth to see if I can find him. His Americanized name was Edgar G Tchirkow. The Russian name was Чирков, which could have been spelled Chirkov, or Chirkoff, Czirkoff, or Czirvioff, or....... This is the problem. On his port arrival paperwork, it lists his name as Jegory Czirvioff. I don't know how that ended up as Edgar Tchirkow.

[mmogno]

[onslo234]

Thanks for providing. I had found these. I wonder how this would have worked at Ellis Island. Would the immigration official fill these documents out? And would they just spell the names phonetically? I'm really confused on how "Jegory" ended up as "Edgar." Makes me wonder what the name would show up as in Italian records.

[Cousinvinny]

Manifests were filled out at the port of embarkation, not upon arrival. So someone in Arkhangelsk would have done the transcription of the name as it was given (and may have been phonetically, especially if the person giving their name was illiterate).