Question about Baptismal Record

[CaputoBruno]

Good Morning,

I have a question regarding a baptismal record for my grandmother. She was baptized in Utica NY in December 1916 and the church was able to locate the record (thank god). My bigger question is this...the church does not certify documents, so how does that work for the standpoint of preparing the record for citizenship. Would I simply write a letter about the details, provide a copy of the baptismal record and have a notary certify it and then apostille and translate that?

What are your thoughts on this, and if someone had delt with this in the past, I would be interested in your thoughts.

Thanks so much guys!

-Robert

[qualdom]

Good Morning,

I have a question regarding a baptismal record for my grandmother. She was baptized in Utica NY in December 1916 and the church was able to locate the record (thank god). My bigger question is this...the church does not certify documents, so how does that work for the standpoint of preparing the record for citizenship. Would I simply write a letter about the details, provide a copy of the baptismal record and have a notary certify it and then apostille and translate that?

What are your thoughts on this, and if someone had delt with this in the past, I would be interested in your thoughts.

Thanks so much guys!

-Robert

I think the first thing you need to do is get a certified letter of no record from the civil authorities.

Will the church allow a mobile notary to come in and authenticate the church official's signature?

[CaputoBruno]

I am not sure I follow you regarding the no record from the civil authority. This is the Roman Catholic Church of Utica NY called Mt. Carmel. They maintain their own records. There was indeed a birth certificate registered and I have that. The question is that for the purpose of dual citizenship, the baptismal record is very important. It shows parents, witnesses, dates, names, and even location of parents birth, etc. For that reason I want to present this as a record. That said, I dont believe the church has the authority to notarize seething. I am sure they would allow for me to send a mobile notary to to go to the church and complete some sort of authentication. That said, I would have to work that all out. Are you certain that is the process I would need to follow on this.

Let me know.

[qualdom]

I am not sure I follow you regarding the no record from the civil authority. This is the Roman Catholic Church of Utica NY called Mt. Carmel. They maintain their own records. There was indeed a birth certificate registered and I have that. The question is that for the purpose of dual citizenship, the baptismal record is very important. It shows parents, witnesses, dates, names, and even location of parents birth, etc. For that reason I want to present this as a record. That said, I dont believe the church has the authority to notarize seething. I am sure they would allow for me to send a mobile notary to to go to the church and complete some sort of authentication. That said, I would have to work that all out. Are you certain that is the process I would need to follow on this.

Most people only use church records when a civil records are unavailable. That's why I assumed there was no civil record. When I applied for recognition, I had both civil and church records. My attorney wasn't interested at all in the church records.

Are you saying that the church is unwilling to sign a statement confirming that the copy they gave you is an accurate copy of what is in their baptism register? Also, will you need an apostille (is this a 1948 case)?

[qualdom]

and I agree with you on the value of the baptism record. My GM's baptism record listed the comune of birth for my GGPs, whereas the civil record only put the place of birth as Italy. So the baptism record was a much more convincing piece of evidence. That said, the attorney still wasn't interested in using it at all.

[CaputoBruno]

Sorry @Qualdom I did not mean to state that they would be unwilling to certify. I am sure they will write a letter stating that the information is accurate. If that is the case, I see what you mean. You would have the church write a letter stating that the document is accurate, with specific details about the record, then have a mobile notary go to the church to have them sign and notarize, then have that document apostilled and translated if Italy wants it. It would be only for backup and as you stated, the record states the commune of birth of my grandmothers parents and like you stated, the civil record only states Italy.

[CaputoBruno]

I just spoke with a mobile notary and from what she stated, they can go out and authenticate the church representative signing the document that states that this is an authentic record in the records of the church. She stated that once she provides the authentication and notary, I could then take it to the county of Oneida to have it "Certified" and once it is certified, they state will apostille it without an issue. I only put this note on here for anyone else that may need to do something similar. Thanks @Qualdom for the information.

[CaputoBruno]

The important take away here for anyone needing to get a record like a baptism record is that a baptism record cannot be apostilled or certified. That said, what you would do is have a mobile notary go and collect the document from the church (Birth, Marriage, Baptism, etc.) They would have the church sign and attest to the authenticity of the document. THEN you you would take the notarized document to the county in which the notary is authorized and have it Authenticated. Once it is authenticated, you can then have that apostilled.

Obviously this is not required for documents from a municipality like a city, etc...but in some rare cases you may have a marriage that took place in the church that was older than the municipality kept records. In this case you would follow this process. Notary, Authentication, Certification, Apostille.

I hope that helps!

[cedrone]

You should read the details given on the website of the consulate of your area.
Are you saying that there was not a civil register at that town /time or you want to have both certificates?

In general (I refer to other Countries, not to the US) it is requested a birth certificate of the civil authority. Church registers are used when were not yet existing civil records or,
in some Countries and periods, the priest of a parish was also a civil official and registers were for both purposes., for church and civil.

In your case you should have a civil certificate, if existing, then you may add also that of the church.
You are applying at a consulate or at a Court in Italy?

[cedrone]

You say the church doesn't give cettificates, what do you mean?
What have you given? A photocopy of the register? ("copia integrale")
If the church put a stamp that it is conform to the original and signed by the pastor it's OK
but the parish should give a certificate ("extract") with only the data asked for the process of Italian citizenship, that is name of the person, da

[cedrone]

You say the church doesn't give certificates, what do you mean?
What have they given? A photocopy of the register? ("copia integrale")
If the church put a stamp that it is compliant to the original and signed by the pastor it's OK
but the parish should give a certificate ("extract") with only the data asked for the process of Italian citizenship, that is name of the person, dates of birth and baptism, names of the parents.
Signed by the church pastor, then legalized by the Diocese.
To be verified if it's needed the apostille.
Then all translated to italian.

[cedrone]

If you want to present the church act because it's more detailed that the civil it is ok, as said ask a "copia conforme" to the parish, and then try to ask a legalization of the signature of the pastor to the Diocese. In other Countries it is made so.
For apostille and translation look at the website of the consulate
(the church register is written in English? If it is in Italian of course no need of translation.) (There were churches of Italian communities)

[CaputoBruno]

Cedrone, let me be clear, I am responding from the US so in order to get records they will always require to be in long format. The church is not considered a civil authority in the United States. In some cases, if the record is old, say 1900 or prior there was no requirement for the municipality to provide a license or birth certificate. In these cases, the consulate will accept a baptism record. The thread was initially created because although I was able to locate the civil record, I also found the baptism record that substantiated the civil record...in other words I had both. I posted the information for others that may find it helpful. In the event you are not able to locate the civil record from the municipality and all you have is the baptism record, you would need to get a notary to witness the document, since the church record is not able to be certified by the county. You would have a notary gather the document, get the appropriate signatures, then the county will authenticate and certify the document. Once that is complete, it will be in the correct format needed for apostille, translation, presentation to the consulate or civil authorities in Italy.

[Anthonylassiter]

To process your grandmother’s baptismal records, you should write a detailed letter, attach a copy of the records, and have the documents certified by a notary. Translation is also an important step. This can help you with your naturalization application. Just like playing slope game everything needs to be done correctly and carefully to reach the end goal!