"Lingua nostra"

[MarcuccioV]

Curious if anyone else's relatives used any of these words. My grandmother (as with most immigrant Italians) invented her own language (often based on corruptions of English words/phrases). However, here are a couple I've never heard repeated by any of our paisani:

She used the word "scesso" (acsesso=abscess) for bathroom (when not using the common "baccausa" - backhouse).

Although "bagno" was bath, bathtub was bagnarolla (instead of vasca).

She knew the word "gabinetto", but never used it conversationally.

Were these common..? Or is this more "parlata burina" (backwoods slang)..?

[mmogno]

She used the word "scesso" (acsesso=abscess) for bathroom (when not using the common "baccausa" - backhouse).
Probably the word was “cesso”, not “scesso”.

Although "bagno" was bath, bathtub was bagnarolla (instead of vasca).
"bagnarola", not "bagnarolla".

She knew the word "gabinetto", but never used it conversationally.

The words "cesso" and "bagnarola" are there in Italian dictionaries. "Gabinetto" is a more polite word.

[MarcuccioV]

The words "cesso" and "bagnarola" are there in Italian dictionaries. "Gabinetto" is a more polite word.

Grazie, mmogno. I could not find them in my research. Obviously not often used, as she was the only person I ever heard saying them.

[mmogno]

https://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/cesso2/
https://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/bagnarola/
https://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/gabinetto/

[MarcuccioV]

https://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/cesso2/
https://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/bagnarola/
https://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/gabinetto/

Thank you for the links. She had a very odd dialect (even more than my grandfather, who was from the same eastern Lazio commune). Pippo (who I met in person in Rome last year) refers to it as 'parlata burina'. When I spoke our dialect to him, he caught on to some of it but was at a complete loss for certain phrases (and I avoided the inevitable 'Italianized English' that most US immigrants developed). Some of the pronunciations seem to be a 'Romanized' form of Sicilian -- and since my DNA indicates deep Sicilian (as well as some Greek) roots on that side, I assume there may have been a small influx of Sicilian farmers into the Roman countryside many years before and the dialects simply merged over the generations...

[PippoM]

Hi Mark,
no, I could understand your "parlata burina"...you speak it perfectly.
The only issue is that nowadays you can't find anyone speaking that way!

I just want to add to what mmogno perfectly explained is that "bagnarola" is now more used to mean some plastic containers (for washing clothes, for instance).
"Cesso" was once more used than today in every day language, but it took a pejorative meaning with the passing of time.

[MarcuccioV]

Hi Mark,
no, I could understand your "parlata burina"...you speak it perfectly.
The only issue is that nowadays you can't find anyone speaking that way!

I just want to add to what mmogno perfectly explained is that "bagnarola" is now more used to mean some plastic containers (for washing clothes, for instance).
"Cesso" was once more used than today in every day language, but it took a pejorative meaning with the passing of time.

In recollection, it was probably Norma (?) that was confused more than you. I sometimes get confused reading/hearing "correct" Italian, since I'm so used to the dialect...

[PippoM]

Waiting for you to come to Italy again, for a new meal together...cooked by Norma!

[MarcuccioV]

Waiting for you to come to Italy again, for a new meal together...cooked by Norma!

We plan to return eventually, and tour Rome south to Sicily. You both are welcome to visit the New World, too..!

[MarcuccioV]

I thought of a couple more phrases seemingly used only in our limited familial circle which often confused outsiders until they got used to them. We never said "anche io" for 'me too' but instead said "purre me". It is found on Google translate but that does not mean it isn't slang of some sort. Another was "esso/essa" (pronounced like isso/issa) for him & her instead of the more common "lui/sua" (again, found on Google translate). As I said initially, these were words/phrases seemingly spoken only in our family. My Aunt's Sicilian family did use "iddu/idda", which indicates possibly a connection since we have deeper Sicilian roots (yet undiscovered).

My grandmother (who was the worst offender when it came to these phrases) came to the US at the age of 19 in the early 1920's. She was fully Italian educated and literate.

So is this simply a more antiquated manner of speaking..? Slang..? "Burinese"..? Would like opinions from some of the 'maestri di lingua antica' on here -- Pippo..? mmogno..?

[PippoM]

"pure io" is currently used in Italian; so, it's possible that a local form be "pure me".
"esso/essa" should be used in Italian like "it" in English (for things, animals), but it's used in dialect for persons.
These forms have a lot of variations in Italy.
Near Naples we say "isso/essa" with a very fuzzy final letter.
South of Salerno, I've heard "illo/ella" or "iru/ira", and "iddu/idda" is actually Sicilian.
In Norma's town they say "esso/essa", too.

[MarcuccioV]

"pure io" is currently used in Italian; so, it's possible that a local form be "pure me".
"esso/essa" should be used in Italian like "it" in English (for things, animals), but it's used in dialect for persons.
These forms have a lot of variations in Italy.
Near Naples we say "isso/essa" with a very fuzzy final letter.
South of Salerno, I've heard "illo/ella" or "iru/ira", and "iddu/idda" is actually Sicilian.
In Norma's town they say "esso/essa", too.

Pippo, thank you for the clarification. We also have Campaniese (as well as Abruzzese and Pugliese) mixed in with Siciliano. Lazio seemed to be the final familial destination before emigration to the US...

[AngelaGrace56]

Just chiming in. These dialectal threads always bring back memories. We used idd'/edda, so quite similar to Sicilian. I clearly remember our friends from Naples area using esso/essa.

Angela