Accoglimento Totale / 1948 case

[s38tommaso]

After 3 years and 8 months of effort, I received my judgment this morning of Full Acceptance on my 1948 case.

I've posted elsewhere in this forum, but to briefly recap my timeline:

June 2020: begin eligibility research
January 2021: engage ICA, begin collecting official documents
... [other stuff, corrections, translations, etc] ...
February 2023: file in Court of Potenza
March 2023: receive hearing date
October 2023: hearing date
Febrary 2024: accoglimento totale

I know this is not the "statement of no appeal" which makes the judge's decision final but that's essentially a formality. My lawyer is already petitioning to reduce the appellate time to 30 days from 90.

Good luck out there, happy to answer any questions in this thread.

[bmorocco]

Congratulations!

I hope you got your final statement!

I have roughly the same timeline as you. At least I started around the same time with ICA. I have my hearing scheduled for NOV 7 this year. It's already moved once from October... And my case is in ROME, because GGF was born in outskirts... though EVERYONE else in Family is from Calabria/Sicily...

So fingers are crossed. What consulate are you now lining up for? I'm in Los Angeles, so I imagine I'll have a long wait even then.

But it's great to hear that ICA worked out. I have had all the documents in place since last year. And it gets quiet for a while just waiting on the court... So it's really nice to read this.

I'd like to know what you did to fill in the time? I am looking forward to possibly finding work in Italy. I'm not yet in a position to retire( 53), but if I could find something there, it would make moving much easier.

Thanks!

[s38tommaso]

Hey Bill,

As it happens, I have *not* received the final statement yet. There is a delay, here is how it was explained to me:

Agenzia delle Entrate must register the judgment and then report it to the court before the court is able to issue this certificate, and this public body in this period has a lot of workload and backlog.

Unfortunate, but not surprising. Hopefully it comes soon.

With regard to the consulate, it was my understanding that a consular appointment would not be necessary when taking the 1948 judicial route, and that documents would be generated in-Italy once the final statement is received. Do you know differently?

As far as filling the time goes, I have been trying to find distant cousins in Italy, with some minor success. I'm still mid-way through my career, and I'm maybe lucky given that the company I work for has business entities throughout Europe -- for now, at least, it seems likely that I could take my job with me.

Yeah, the waiting game is a tough one, but ICA has been good about notifying me as soon as something happens. Still, when more than the average or expected time for a given step elapses and I don't hear anything, I shoot them a little message to ask if there are any problems. They have been great about explaining the reason behind delays to me throughout this process.

Fingers crossed yours moves along quickly from here!

Tom

[lunadam]

Hey Bill, Pokemon Infinite Fusion

As it happens, I have *not* received the final statement yet. There is a delay, here is how it was explained to me:

Agenzia delle Entrate must register the judgment and then report it to the court before the court is able to issue this certificate, and this public body in this period has a lot of workload and backlog.

Unfortunate, but not surprising. Hopefully it comes soon.

With regard to the consulate, it was my understanding that a consular appointment would not be necessary when taking the 1948 judicial route, and that documents would be generated in-Italy once the final statement is received. Do you know differently?

As far as filling the time goes, I have been trying to find distant cousins in Italy, with some minor success. I'm still mid-way through my career, and I'm maybe lucky given that the company I work for has business entities throughout Europe -- for now, at least, it seems likely that I could take my job with me.

Yeah, the waiting game is a tough one, but ICA has been good about notifying me as soon as something happens. Still, when more than the average or expected time for a given step elapses and I don't hear anything, I shoot them a little message to ask if there are any problems. They have been great about explaining the reason behind delays to me throughout this process.

Fingers crossed yours moves along quickly from here!

Tom

Hope good things will come to you

[s38tommaso]

The certificate of no appeal came through today. So the updated timeline:

June 2020: begin eligibility research
January 2021: engage ICA, begin collecting official documents
... [other stuff, corrections, translations, etc] ...
February 2023: file in Court of Potenza
March 2023: receive hearing date
October 2023: hearing date
February 2024: accoglimento totale
June 2024: passaggio in giudicato (certificate of no appeal)

[bmorocco]

Congratulations TOM!

Just came back to check in on you. So what is ICA suggesting now? You responded to me above with this question but I have not reached out to them yet... I'm getting ready to make final payment before NOV Court Date.

With regard to the consulate, it was my understanding that a consular appointment would not be necessary when taking the 1948 judicial route, and that documents would be generated in-Italy once the final statement is received. Do you know differently?

Do you know if it's true I would not need to wait 2 yrs more at Conulate?

I also think I should be looking forward (WITH OPTIMISM) and try reaching out to what would be distant and forgotten but still verifiable relations both in the commune I'm applying to (Roma) and in Calabria.

Have you got any tips for that process? Are you contacting the local post office? That's what immediately comes to mind.

Thanks again,
Billy

[s38tommaso]

Bill,

Thank you for your congratulations, and apologies for the radio silence — for some reason this board is not notifying me of replies to this thread.

Much has happened in the interim; I now have an Italian passport in-hand. Let me update the timeline once more before getting to your questions (new items in bold):

June 2020: begin eligibility research
January 2021: engage ICA, begin collecting official documents
... [other stuff, corrections, translations, etc] ...
February 2023: file in Court of Potenza
March 2023: receive hearing date
October 2023: hearing date
February 2024: accoglimento totale
June 2024: passaggio in giudicato (certificate of no appeal)
June 2024: request passport appointment at consulate (NYC)
November 2024: passport appointment at consulate (NYC)
November 2024: Italian passport arrives by mail

So, perhaps I got mixed up with the consulate appointment. It seems appointments to bring all of one's documents forward to apply for a passport run about 5-6 months out, depending on the consulate. I was unaware that this was a step that takes places regardless of one's specific tragjectory (1948 vs non-1948), and that the passport would actually be generated in-country, by the consulate, rather than in Italy. Apologies for that.

A separate matter, consular appointments to negotiate citizenship when one is not subject to the 1948 ruling, I understand, can run as far as 2 years out, making the 1948 vs non-1948 overall time-to-wait about equivalent.

To find relatives, I researched on several genealogy websites, and finally found someone, a very distant cousin, who replied to me on one of them — it was https://www.myheritage.com, which seems to be more popular in Europe.

[ItalyResearcher]

Congratulations Tom! If my family decides to move forward, it will also be through Potenza. Good to hear that Palumbo is approving some cases now. I understand he had delayed the process for some.

Tom and Bill: sounds like you were satisfied with ICA. Did you utilize full service package, or something different?

Would you mind sharing the cost, or if you are uncomfortable sharing it here, you are welcome to PM as well. We are trying to weigh pros/cons of the costs.

Thanks for sharing your timeline, and other valuable insight. Much appreciated.

[s38tommaso]

I went with full-service; their advertised cost at the time that I retained them was 10k EUR, and that's what I paid to them. Keep in mind, this was in 2020, so I expect prices to have gone up. They were flexible with me, I paid in 2 installments. And just because it was full service didn't leave me off the hook; I still ended up doing a ton of legwork. For example, I traveled personally to a specific church in Harlem that held the baptismal certificate of my great-grandmother; the volunteers at the church just weren't responsive enough via email/phone to get the item to me in time, so I went there myself. It paid off, we needed it for surname clarification. Luckily, at the time, I didn't live too terribly far from NYC, so it cost me some money, but not a lot.

So this illustrates the point that that full-service fee doesn't take into account their out-of-pocket costs, and your out-of-pocket costs. For me, in addition to that anecdote, I had to retain a third-party genealogy research company to track down some particularly hard-to-find documents. I also had to conduct court cases in the US both to retrieve certain birth documents that were under privacy restrictions, as well as to initiate an official name-correction on certain documents due to discrepancy. This stuff adds up quickly. After 4.5 years, all said, I've probably put something like 18 grand toward this effort, might as well call it 20. But ICA's fee, and the other monies I spent to make this happen, were an absolute bargain in my opinion. It's a lot of money, but I'm a full citizen of a European country less than 5 years later. In my mind, that's a budgetable amount for most people who are in a position to consider moving overseas in the first place.

[ItalyResearcher]

Thanks for the detailed info. Definitely sounds like what they group under out-of-pocket expenses can add up. For Full Service, what records search does ICA include?

Our biggest hurdle at the moment (before we choose a service) is tracking down naturalization records. Nothing pulls up in searches for an ancestor whose census says was naturalized. Trying to find a record with all the different counties in NYC, and then NARA and USCIS is a headache. Especially now that the NY records are in transit to Philadelphia USCIS. Will have to wait now until the transfer is complete and then see if anything pulls up in searches.

Enjoy your dual citizenship! Well deserved after the time and resources you put in.

[s38tommaso]

Full service includes all relevant records search; they conducted naturalization searches for my relevant ancestors at various points in time, and provided those results as official certificates to be included in the packet.

Thank you, I intend to.

[bmorocco]

To Italian Researcher,

I agree with Tom 100% about ICA. I am full service. Will be right at the 10k mark. I have been spending time on other sites like reddit, etc, and the questions that people are unclear about - are never posted by someone with ICA, I'll bet. I get all questions answered within 24 hours, every time, for 3 years so far. And to be honest - I look forward to their help afterwards as they were originally in the real-estate game I believe.

Also - the clincher for me is that GGF intended to naturalize but never completed. This was a "no record" answer from USCIS... And ICA got this for me in about 1 month, I think? I will check. But the point is I didn't have to go through that form.

Like Tom, I had to do some legwork. Thankfully I knew the church where marriages took place and was able to call. Also had to change my OWN BC because my dad thought my mother's middle name was Theresa (it was only her confirmation name! - a bit of catholic humor there). PA records to change a BC is minimum 36 weeks... I still cannot believe they put that on the website.

About the cost... I'm 54, and do NOT have the net worth I should... And it is not at all in my nature to spend so much on myself... But I've never regretted the investment.



TOM,

So glad you have the passport so soon! Are you going to travel for the Jubilee year?

My COURT date has been pushed to the improbable DEC 31st. ICA seems to indicate the judge is retiring and so there is a "made-up" date where a new judge will be assigned. So I'll get a date in the spring I hope. ICA says my documents will still stand up in the new year.

Thank you for clarifying the process post acceptance. And I am definitely glad to hear that the consular wait is NOT like it is with a non-court case. 5-6 months is certainly better than the 2 years I read about.

I'll be going to Los Angeles consulate, which oddly does not seem to be the biggest delayer.

Thanks for the tip about genealogy. Honestly, when I go to Google maps over Artena - I see three businesses with my GGF's name - Talone... I've been trying to figure out from his siblings on ANTENATI...So I am sure that when I pass the court... I'll just reach out... Practicing my Italian...

Billy

[s38tommaso]

Glad to hear your process is moving along Bill, it sounds like it's in the bag. I also have had the same experience with ICA in terms of their customer service. If I had questions or needed help, they responded quickly and satisfactorily.

I won't be traveling to Italy for the Jubilee, but I'll be in Europe 3 weeks later with no explicit plans to return to the US -- I'm getting rid of all of my stuff right now. Long story, and though I will visit, I probably won't end up in Italy to actually live, but it was always the plan to make a life in Europe as soon as I had the chance. So here we are, I've one-way airfare already booked.

[ItalyResearcher]

Bill,

Thank you for the detailed information - very helpful as we will eventually need to decide on using ICA or an individual attorney. (We have a 1948 case and need to present in Italy.)

That’s amazing how ICA received the USCIS response so quickly. Lucky you!