Papagni, Sasso, and Monopoli from Bisceglie Bari

[DebbisTree]

Hi...

I am relatively new to this family tree searching, but I have pretty much exhausted the search on Ancestry . com. I have found most of my ancestors in either census records, immigration records, or death records. I have an appointment to visit my local church hoping there are some records with more clues. I have found many on the LDS website as well, and hope to visit the local archives... however, there are so many lost relatives and I cannot spend all the money to blindly pay for all the records. I am trying to narrow it down (for little or no cost) before I start paying for records.

One problem I have is the last names seem soooo common that I have no idea how to determine if they are cousins or nothing.

The other issue of course, is how to get family records from Italy. From what I've seen, the churches seem to be the record-keepers... do I write to all Catholic churches in Bisceglie and hope for info?

This is what I know, and we have pretty much determined it is correct:

Luigi Papagni (b. 1880-1890?) and Pietro Monopoli (1862) married sisters Congetta (1881) and Donata (1866) Sasso. I found Pietro and Donata's marriage on familysearch . org. I found Donata coming in 1914 with some children and Pietro coming over in 1909. More children came separately.

I found some Luigis but they do not seem to be the right one... I believe all of the children were born in Italy and all but one Papagni came to USA but do not have all of their arrivals yet.

I have no Sasso info except the sisters.

I would also like to go further back to find Luigi's family and Pietro's family.

How would I go further?

I have another question: When the parents and children came separately, who typically woud care for those left behind? How could I find out that info?

Thanks for your guidance.

[wldspirit]

First, here is the website for the town of interest:
http://www.comune.bisceglie.ba.it/

I would not branch off into children and siblings until you have a clear path to your grandparents, starting with yourself working back one generation at a time, this way you are only gathering records for the core nucleus of the family. By all means, list them on a family group sheet, but concentrate on gathering the records you need to verify and prove your relationship.

The other issue of course, is how to get family records from Italy. From what I've seen, the churches seem to be the record-keepers

Churches are not the only source for records. If you know for fact that the ancestors came from a certain town, you can access civil records.

I believe all of the children were born in Italy

Census records should state place of birth, although it will say only Italy.

I would also like to go further back to find Luigi's family and Pietro's family. How would I go further?

You may be able to discover this info on US documents, church records, ship manifest, or naturalization papers. A record of marriage will also list the names of parents.

As to who cares for the children, the children were usually left behind with the mother until the father could send for them......they may have stayed with grandparents, aunts or uncles...even cousins......

hope this helped answer but a few of your questions....
wldspirit

[wldspirit]

Another website, in English, which list the address of the town hall:
http://puglia.indettaglio.it/eng/comuni ... eglie.html

An interactive letter to send for a request of records:
http://www.circolocalabrese.org/resourc ... civile.asp
I would start with the marriage records, since you know both parties name.

wldspirit

[DebbisTree]

Thanks for the info.... this will get me started.....

[rangrz11]

My grandfather was from Bisceglie, and his last name was Papagni. If that can help with your searching, let me know.

[DebbisTree]

Well, yes, perhaps you can help... what years did he live there? Do you know any of the names I listed? Most of the papagnis I know of came to MA... do you have relatives here? What info do you have?

[rangrz11]

Well, yes, perhaps you can help... what years did he live there? Do you know any of the names I listed? Most of the papagnis I know of came to MA... do you have relatives here? What info do you have?

Sorry for the delayed response. What I know if that he immigrated here in 1924, when he was 10 yrs old.
What is interesting is that when I looked on ellisislandrecords.com, you can see a photocopy of the actual ship manifest. My grandfather is passenger #12 on the list. Above him I believe passenger #7 is his father...and there is a notation about Worcester,MA in a box that refers to "are you going to join a friend or relative?". After you click on view ship manifest, and then enlarge it...you also have the option of looking at the test version of the ships manifest. They misspelled papagni on all the immigration paperwork though, and wrote it as "papagno" in the records. If you do a search on the website under "Pantaleo Papagno" you'll find all this. Let me know if you find the connection to the Worcester Papagnis?

[DebbisTree]

Wow, what happened to my response?

I left a really long detailed message that never posted... there was a really long delay and then it gave an error... I ran out of time and left a shorter one, and I don't see that one, either!

I am working on a response... I found some of your family but I'm not sure if the Papagnos are the same family... stay tuned!

[DebbisTree]

Ok… here we go! First, I don’ t know how much info you have about your family, but here is what I have that is somewhat confusing:

I found your page on ellisisland…. My 1st question is, are you certain that is your family? All the names are correct, except that last name?

Interestingly, your family is probably the group of Papagnis that is causing me some trouble… for example, there is a Rosa from Bisceglie born the same year as my g-grandmother, Rose! One came to MA, one eventually went to CA. I know they are not the same person. I am trying to piece the clues together… it seems some Papagnis came to Worcester and then went to CA… it also looks like the same people went to NY for awhile… I know some of my Papagnis went to NY but I’m still working it out… I am not aware of any mentioned going to CA but…. They all traveled together, with the same names, from the same town, TO the same town… I’m guessing they would have to at least known one another… maybe been cousins…

As for Pantaleo and Rosa: I see them listed as Papagno on ellis island… they are at first going to NY however…

Then july 21 1938 I see them arriving together (Pantaleo Papagni age 48 & Rosa Tedesco Papagni age 39) from Naples, heading to Fresno. Interestingly, they are listed then crossed out on a ship manifest a week earlier.

Now, in Sept 1913, there are Papagnis listed on the SS Napoli. Pantaleo (age 22) is crossed out. He listed his father in Bisceglie as Domenico, and was intending to go to Fresno. Also on this manifest is Carlo Papagni, listing his father Angelo in Italy, and Luigi D’Addato (?) who’s father in Italy is Sebastiano. They are all heading to Fresno.

Now, on another manifest I found a Luigi Papagni, age 23, in June 1913 on the Berlin (that I thought was one of my relatives but I’m still working it out) who listed his friend back in the old country as Vito D’Addato. He was going to Worcester. The Luigi I was looking for was at least 10 years older then this one. I have no records for him at all. As far as I knew, he was the 1st one to come here.

But back to the Napoli: Giovanni D’Addato and Giacomo Garafoli seem to be traveling together and heading to Fresno. Do you know the name D’Addato? I don’t.

There are a bunch of Papagnis in Fresno in the 1930 census records. But there are Papagnis all over MA and NY that are no relatives to me.

Now back to the ellis island: I found the 1st manifest leaving Italy: Feb 6 1924 on the Conte Rosso they are listed, as you say, that Battista (son Francesco in Bisceglie) was living in Worc. They were all listed as traveling to NY, but then they were all hand-corrected as going to Worcester. On ellis island Battista’s daughter was Antonia Papagno in Worc. on Plumb St.(which is right in the Italian neighborhood.) He’d been to the US on Jan 19, on the Conte Verdi, I think the notation said… Now, THIS Rosa was only 7 so she would have been born abt. 1917…

Also, I looked in the Worcester phone book for 1924… there are Papagnis and and Papagnos… there is Battista and Antonio Papagno. No one on Plumb St., but it seems there are no female names! The 1926 directory is by street, none of these names on Plum St. In 1922 Battista is now Papagnia! This is likely the 1st one on your original list who already lived in MA.

In the 1920 census in Fresno, Peter (Pantaleo?) (b abt 1893) and Rosa (age 21) have a daughter Josephina about 1 ½… they are listed as Papagna… alternate Papagno.

In 1930 in Fresno, there is a Peter and Robe (obvious typo) PapagnI… he is born abt 1891, she abt 1899… with Josephine, Betty, and (I cannot read it) daughter Evelin? Seems again to be the correct family.

Ok, I tried following the family but I’ve not found the trail…. There are a lot of Papagnis and Papagnos in Massachusetts, especially around Boston. I am not aware of any relation with them. As for the Fresno group, I have a lot of questions but I cannot get back far enough to find out, yet.

There is also a Demetrio Papagni… I know that there is an uncle way back… I show birthdays ranging from 1894 to 1899 and I cannot narrow it down. I think he went to NY but then I show one living in Fresno. I am not yet certain if they are 2 different men… one registered for WWI in NY, one reg. for WWII in CA and died in CA…

His father is Luigi, and he was born abt 1878. He, his wife, and children seem to have all come over at different times, but I cannot find records for all of them.

I am scheduling a trip to the LDS center and I will hopefully get records from Italy sometime this year to show some connections.

At this point I am hoping for other cousins to help us out until I get further info!

[rangrz11]

Whew! that's a mouthful. So are YOU a Papagni then? and you're sure you're not related to any of the NY or MA Papagni's?

I am relatively sure that the ellis island manifest is my Grandfathers family. When I was growing up, as I learned them, my Great Aunts and Uncles were named Mary, Alice, Rose, Grace, Tony,Nicky and Carlo. My Grandpa was Pantaleo, and I think his father (again, as I learned it) was John Baptiste Papagni. I don't remember learning my Great Grandmothers name....everyone called her Nonna...but I will find out. Of course, I don't think it's a coincidence that the wifes name on the manifest is Margherita...and so is my Mom, and I have at least 5 cousin Rita's. So with all that said, I'm pretty sure that list is my Grandfather and his family. There are too many similar names to what I was told. I was also told that my Great Uncle Carlo stayed in Italy, and that my Great Uncle Nicky went to CA, and I think his daughters names were Julie and Lisa. I asked my Uncle John for more information about the family, I think he has it traced out alot more than what I know.
If you like, Private Message me with an e-mail address, I'd love to keep up with how you with your search, and then I can send you whatever new info I find as well.
Ciao!

[DebbisTree]

Hi, the names on your Papagni list don't seem to be directly related to me... I haven't found a link, yet, anyway... I've sent a private message to you so we can get into more detail...

In the meantime, i'm still hoping for more info soon.....

[kdlrx1]

My name is Dominic Monopoli and my family is from Bisceglie, Bari. My Grandmother was Frances Papagni she married Nicola Galantino. My Grandparents in Italy were Domenico and Marieta Monopoli. Marieta's maiden name was Papagni. Please email me if there is any chance that we are related.

Thanks,
Dominic Monopoli

[Poipuo4]

Do you have any connections to the Sasso family in Connecticut? I was helping a friend do some research. His grandfather was William Francis Sasso. Great grandparents Rose Orris Sasso and Angelo S. Sasso.

[Amoruso]

hello, my name is brendan amoruso, i have family in bisceglie, i ahve visted them last summer, my aunt aurelia amoruso married paolo papagni many years ago, they have two sons antonio and anton-angelo papagni. i am going back next week to visit again and i will ask more questions about their side of the family, it is not a big city and many can be related

[DebbisTree]

Hello, if anyone is still out there! I have not been able to find more info on the Sasso line. I have the name of the 2 sisters, but every manifest I can find seems to indicate that it is not the right person.

All of them in my line (Papagni, Sasso, and Monopoli) seemed to come from Italy and stay in Massachusetts except one line of Papagni's that went to upstate NY.

I have written a letter to some family who may have more info but for now I am stuck. I took a break from research for awhile as it became a bit obsessive.