Casagrande Family, Veneto Italy

[wayne1650]

Hi -

I am new to this forum, but have done a few searches looking for Casagrande surname. I have also done quite a bit of research on the Ancestry.com site and available internet resources. I am trying to track down information on my Great Grandfather Giuseppe Casagrande, born 11/19/1879. On his draft card he lists his birthplace as Venice, IT but on the Ellis Island records there are several Casagrande's that came from Santa Guistina (BL) so its possible there is relationship. According to relatives, he went to Brazil first and then to NY, possibly via Canada. My understanding is that he did not go through Ellis Island, at list on initial immigration. I found later Ellis Island records, but cannot correlate to information i have on him. Census records list immigration to NY in 1893. To make things more confusing, he started going by Joseph Casagrande here in the US sometime around 1910.

I have hit a bit of a dead end as i do not speak or write Italian, but would like to find records from Veneto (possibly Santa Guistina). I found a record on the Brazil site listed an arrival of a Giuseppe Casagrande in 1891, so i thought there must be a corresponding depature record. Any information on birth, baptism or departure records ... or any help at all would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Wayne

[PeterTimber]

Dear Wayne I went thru www.worldvitalrecords.com on a name check basis and came up with a tempting Giuseppe Casagrande born 1879 ariving in the USA from Genova on 3/11/02 on the SS Aller with two younger brothers(?) destined to Buffalo, NY (USA-Canada border city). The town of origin is not identifiable (clearly seen but nonsensical).

To verify this entry or perhaps another engtry that is valid if this one is not valid is to either send an e-mail to NARA (US national archives) at prologue@NARA.gov and make inquiry or call them at 1-866-272-6272. Entries into the US from canada are on microfilm but perhaps you can come across a kindred soul who will check out any name indexes that may be avilable. You can review the site at www.nara.gov and just put in USA canada border crossing entries and there is a form NATF 81 which covers all entries into the USA both by land and sea which can also be submitted (make inquiry about this NATF 81 form if you meet resistance) Good luck =Peter=

[wayne1650]

Thanks Peter -

I took a look at some of those passenger lists. I dont have any information that indicates my Great Grandfather came through Buffalo and I do not recognize any of the siblings. There is an Ellis Island record from 1903 where he is traveling with Giacomo Casagrande, heading to Passaic, NJ (my family settled in Bergen County, NJ), but again, I have no direct knowledge. I think I need source records on departure and/or birth in Italy to get more information. There is a record on the Brazil immigration site listing a Giuseppe Casagrande arriving in 1891, but no other corroborating evidence. If he arrived in Brazil in 1891, then he stayed there for a year or 2 and then headed to USA. Any idea where records of Brazil ships are and what ports in USA would have been used?

Wayne

[PeterTimber]

I explained why i thought Buffalo may be the point of USA-Canada and back to USA entry with the Giuseppe Casagrande I offered for your review who entered a couple of years after Brazil from italy with two possilbe relatives destined to Buffalo...In any event whatever his port of entry into the USA obtaing NARA form NATF 81 will be a possible source of information concerning his entry into a seaport or border crossing point from Canada. Finding his town of origin in Italy is of course, the way to go.

In fact if you go to http://www.anzwers.org/free/italiangen/ ... earch.html you may find assistance in your research. =Peter=

[PeterTimber]

www.memorialdoimigrante.sp.gov.br has 5 Giuseppe Casagrande entering the Sao Paulo area of Brazil. The 1891 entry you mention has him coming alone. The remaining 4 came with families. =Peter=

[wishyou]

Casagrande was the surname given to unknown parents children.
Till the middle of 19th century the abandoned children in Veneto were taken by a Hospital called "Del Pio Luogo" or "Della Pietà" (i know there was in Venice and in Treviso). These children were immediatly gaven to families all around the Veneto, in which they grow as "guest" with the the indication "caming from Del Pio Luogo or Della Pietà di Venezia or Treviso", changed under the Austrian Empire in surnames as Del Pio Luogo or Della Pietà or Casagrande.
So is very easy to find surname as Casagrande all round the Veneto without any relationship between them.
You could find also Della Pietà or Del Pio Luogo or Casagrande-Del Pio Luogo or Casagrande associated with any other surname (abitually the surname of the family in which the child growned).

All this to say if you don't know exactly the town where you relatives came, it will be almost impossibile to find any information in Italy.

[wayne1650]

Thank you very much for the information. As i read it, i remembered something that my Grandfather had told me once about our surname when I asked him. He indicated that he was told by his father that our name Casagrande was from an orphanage in Italy. He never provided any details on it and mentioned it only a couple of times, but it fits with what you have written.

The other piece of information that i received is that my Great Grandfather Giuseppe Casagrande left Italy partly because his father was a land baron or land owner who was rather unkind to his family. I have no other details and the only link to Venice that i have is from his WW2 draft card that I have attached. He would have been only 14 years old in 1893, which is when he listed the year of immigration to USA on census. Its possible that is why he did not come direct to NY since minors would probably not been allowed in.

I assume that there would be departure records from Havre or Genoa for ships bound for Brazil around 1891-1893 but I am uncertain where to look. I also have his birthdate, so I may be able to located a birth record for him.

Thanks again. The search continues.
Wayne Casagrande

[PeterTimber]

At age 14 it seems reasonable to believe that he was in the custody of an adult when be boarded a ship to Brazil, particularly in those days when rules and regulations were enforced.

Rio Grande do Sul, Santa Catarina, Parana and Sao Paulo are the Brazilian southern states where most immigrants settled, especially Germans and Italians from 1870 onward, polish and Japanese came much later Secondary states of immigration were Espirto Santo and Rio De Janeiro. =Peter=

[wayne1650]

Hi -

I have found some additional information regarding my relatives and was wondering if any of this sounds correct. I now know that my G-G Grandfather's name was Giovanni Casagrande, born somewhere around 1850. He had 3 sons named Alessandro Casagrande, born 11/12/1877, Guiseppe Casagrande, born 11/19/1879, and Giacomo born 4/25/1886.

All are listed as coming from Santa Giustina, BL in their immigration, but all came at different times. The interesting thing is that Giacomo lists his place of birth as Feltre, BL and Guiseppe lists his place of birth as Venice, Italy. Is it common for people to name the largest city as their place of birth or perhaps were there only hospitals in Feltre and Venice? I am trying to figure out what communes to write to and what documents to request.

Thanks
wayne

[PeterTimber]

write one letter to all three (just change the name and dates) and go to www.mangeruca for italian form letters. I believe the site also has addresses for municipal civil offices (Uffico di Stato Civile). =Peter=

[PeterTimber]

www.mangeruca.com =Peter=

[wishyou]

"Is it common for people to name the largest city as their place of birth"
Yes, it was and it is (when i live in the U.S. i always said "aruond Venice" the place where I came, even my city is 60 km. from Venice), but, in effect, Santa Giustina is 80 km. and at least two chains of mountains far from Venice... is too much.

"were there only hospitals in Feltre and Venice?"
No, there were hospitals also in Belluno, Treviso, Valdobbiadene, Montebelluna, Vittorio (all cities 20/30 km. far from S. Giustina).

It is possibile he was really born in Venice.

[PeterTimber]

Lets wait and see what the letters produce if they are judged worthy to be sent. =Peter=

[wayne1650]

Hi -

thank you for the replies. I have started on the form letters to Santa Giustina and Feltre and will see what they yield. I had previously sent email as was recommended in one of the discussions but have not heard back.

I did receive 2 additional documents: 1 is the naturalization record for Giovanni Casagranda (note the 'a' as last letter) from Santa Giustina. All other information lines up and it appears common practice on some of the records to spell last name with 'a' or 'e'. I also received the marriage certificate for his son Giuseppe (my G-Grandfather). I discovered additional surnames of Pislor and Sandri that also came from Santa Giustina and related as in-laws.

Wayne

[tocheiris]

Perdona: Mi inglés no es bueno por eso te escribo en Castellano. Leyendo los datos sobre la familia Casagrande, te diré que mi tatarabuela Giácoma Casagrande llegó a Brasil en el año 1891, tenemos una partida de nacimiento de un nieto en Santo. Su nieto mayor era mi abuelo y había nacido en Montebelluna, Treviso, Véneto. Además coinciden algunos nombres, que se conservaban en las familias: su hijos se llamaban:Giuseppe, Alessandro y Vittorio. Ella estaba casado con Giuseppe TOCCHETTON. En tu familia hay también Giácomo. ¿serían hermanos? Iris