Name on passenger list?

[darkerhorse]

Ignazio Saccamore came over on the same ship with Giuseppe Eppes, also headed for Lyons, having left his wife Augusta at home, joining Pietro Mastracchio.

Tu ricordi?

Before I get the red font, his wife's name was Angela.

[darkerhorse]

The surname on this list here, on the right side, 6th one down, https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... AQ235-SKG8 Is it Eppes as transcribed, or Ebbes, or something else?

This is the actual manifest https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse ... sePUB=true , I'll upload it below as ancestry requires a sub and I cannot find it elsewhere.

I'd like opinions especially on the first surname, I believe that is more likely to be accurate then the manifest, because if I'm understanding right the first list was actually compiled in Italy thus more likely to have gotten spelling and pronunciations correct.

Can you post the second page of your GGR's ship manifest?

[darkerhorse]

And what's the full date on his birth record?

[lyn1982]

Yes I'll post it here. My apologies for not posting sooner took a bit of a break.

I don't think I have any hope finding his parents cause theres only 1 dna match with Straccamore in their tree - what's bizarre is this match is a first cousin to multiple matches of mine on Joseph's wives line. Odd since she doesn't have that surname anywhere in her tree. I'll have to do more research to see what on earth is going on here. The Straccamore match only matches me 14m and matches my known 2nd/3rdish cousins 422cm and 173cm. These are matches only decended from Joseph's wives line (or so I thought). What's weird is you think my matches with them would be even higher than but I match them 20cm and 13cm. They are a 2nd cousin x2 removed and 3rd cousin x1 removed for me. Also their Straccamores are from Vico nel Lazio, Frosinone, Lazio, Italy and settled in North Tonawanda NY if this is correct. (I still need to figure out why they are 1rst/2nd cousins to Joseph's wives line).

I can't recall time but full birthdate is 6 Dec 1895 heres the record: https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... 17/LDdGDqn

I'll attach 2nd page on manifest here too. Actually will attach both pages.

[lyn1982]

Woah....a Staccamore in their ancestry (if ancestry suggestions are correct) has a mother born in Agrigento. Ok. This might actually be leading somewhere. Still no idea why they are first cousins to my known cousins on Joseph's wives line tho....


Argia Onorati
B:abt 1884 Vico nel Lazio, Frosinone, Lazio, Italy

D:6 May 1957 North Tonawanda, Niagara County, New York, United States of America


mother Giuseppa Bonanno
B:01 Sep 1859 Canicattì, Agrigento, Italy

Argia's spouse:
Julius Joseppe Straccamore
B:16 Jun 1884 Vico nel Lazio, Frosinone, Lazio, Italy

D:28 January 1954 North Tonawanda, Niagara County, New York, USA

I'm confused here because Straccamore is Argia's married name. And her and her husband are both too young to be Josephs parents.

But of course in the obituary for Julius there is a son in Rome who is a doctor lol. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/126 ... traccamore

[lyn1982]

Woah....a Staccamore in their ancestry (if ancestry suggestions are correct) has a mother born in Agrigento. Ok. This might actually be leading somewhere. Still no idea why they are first cousins to my known cousins on Joseph's wives line tho....


Argia Onorati
B:abt 1884 Vico nel Lazio, Frosinone, Lazio, Italy

D:6 May 1957 North Tonawanda, Niagara County, New York, United States of America


mother Giuseppa Bonanno
B:01 Sep 1859 Canicattì, Agrigento, Italy

Argia's spouse:
Julius Joseppe Straccamore
B:16 Jun 1884 Vico nel Lazio, Frosinone, Lazio, Italy

D:28 January 1954 North Tonawanda, Niagara County, New York, USA

I'm confused here because Straccamore is Argia's married name. And her and her husband are both too young to be Josephs parents. Also since when is Giuseppe spelled Joseppe?

But of course in the obituary for Julius there is a son in Rome who is a doctor lol. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/126 ... traccamore

Edit: DNA match is only a quarter italian according to ethnicity report and from what it looks like in tree, meaning their relation to me does have to be from the Straccamore line (given they are labeled as a paternal match for me).

[mjclayton1]

I’m a bit late to the party (string) here, but I'm going to attempt to answer lyn1982's Dec. 22, 2025 question "What does being in same grouping mean exactly?”

I've spent some time studying some of these immigrant Ship Manifests and have drawn what I believe to be some (logical) conclusions as to both this one here and, in general, I imagine many others. Although the passage of time certainly brought changes (evolution) to the forms used by shipping companies (BTW, these forms were promulgated to the various shipping companies by the U.S. Govt.), on the surface at least, I think the answer to the poster’s question is a fairly straightforward one. At the very same time, it can also be deceptively complicated…

I can't make any conclusions with 100% certainty, but at a base level, when you consider the fact that many, if not all, ships carrying Italians to NY/Ellis Island over the years traveled the Genoa-Naples-Palermo route, what that means is that you have three (3) distinct PORT OF DEPARTURE “groups" (not to be confused with a “grouping” that darkerhorse uses - I’ll get to that term later). I think many would instead use the term “lists” interchangeably for “groups”, but I just want to make that distinction here…

Anyway, you’ll note that there are three (3) differing (but consecutive) “sailing from” (departure) dates for each city/port on the top of numerous pages in a given (total) Ship Manifest...

(note: To be clear, when it comes to Ellis Island immigration/shipping records, I don't necessarily know that the word “group”, or even ”grouping”, is an actual technical term. In our case here, I’m merely using “group” in the context of how I define that term, as well as how the term “Group” is utilized on the supplementary NY City Migration Records link that was provided…)

My so-called “groups” are:

1. Genoa (“sailing from” this port on June 9, 1913)
2. Naples (“sailing from” this port on June 10, 1913)
3. Palermo ("sailing from” this port on June 11, 1913)

The net of this is that you have three (3) distinct (comprehensive and SEPARATE) ship manifest "groups" which have their own set of unique identification numbers that tie to each Port of Departure for the (total) route traveled to the U.S. Those three “groups” are then bundled together to comprise a complete accounting of passengers that ultimately arrived in NY on the noted date (in this case, June 25, 1913) and on the noted ship (in this case, the Regina D'Italia)...

Again, and for emphasis, not counting the boiler-plate Ship Master/Commander and Surgeon’s Affidavits, a unique numbering scheme identified a specific series of individual manifest pages within each “group”…

To further clarify, my definition of a given "list" means BOTH pages that constitute that particular list. In other words, the first page (each page contained 30 lines for passenger name entries) of a given list that contained the passenger’s name, their nationality and last residence, etc., AND the next page of the SAME list, which did not contain the passenger’s name, but instead shows who paid their passage, whether that passenger was ever in the United States before, who they were going to see, their condition, their place of birth, etc. In short, two PAGES are combined to constitute a single (numbered) “list” reference…

To make things even more interesting, within each “group”, there's also a breakdown of who was in 1st class and who was in 3rd class (aka “steerage”)…

In terms of “groups”, when breaking down the (complete) June 25, 1913 Regina D’Italia manifest, the Ancestry Record, which, for reference, is 325 pages long, looks like this:

1. Pages 1-57 (of 325) of the Ancestry Record covers Genoa travelers
2. Pages 58-202 (of 325) of the Ancestry Record covers Naples travelers
3. Pages 203-318 (of 325) of the Ancestry Record covers Palermo travelers

Also: Pages 319-325 covers those immigrants held for Special Inquiry…

The ultimate “list” identification scheme is a bit odd, but it goes like this…

First off, 1st class passengers from each port of embarkment are categorized alphabetically as LIST A, LIST B, LIST C and LIST D:

1. LIST A on pages 1-2 (of 325) covers Genoa 1st class travelers
2. LIST B and LIST C on pages 5-10 (of 325) covers Naples 1st class travelers
3. LIST D on pages 13-14 (of 325) covers Palermo 1st class travelers

All told, there are 4 total (1st class) lists here…

Next, all the other lists in each group are categorized numerically as follows:

(note: I don’t know if the list numbering we’re speaking of here was done at the Port of Departure, e.g., by the shipping companies and/or their ticketing agents, etc., or by, for example, U.S. immigration clerks/inspectors at Ellis Island)

1. Those that embarked in Genoa (first collection of passengers to board) use a 2-digit “10" series of numbering = lists numbered 11 thru 20 here. Breaking that down a bit further, list Nos. 11 thru 19 appear to be for passengers with a final destination anywhere in the U.S., whereas list No. 20 appears to be only for those going on to Canada. All told, there are 10 total lists here.

2. Those that embarked in Naples (second collection of passengers to board) use a 3-digit “100" series of numbering = lists numbered 111 thru 146 here. Breaking that down a bit further, list Nos. 111 thru 143 appear to be for passengers with a final destination anywhere in the U.S., whereas list Nos. 144 thru 146 appear to be only for those going on to Canada. All told, there are 36 total lists here.

3. Those that embarked in Palermo (third/last collection of passengers to board) also use a 3-digit “200" series of numbering = lists numbered 201 thru 230). All of these passengers appear to have a final destination anywhere in the U.S. (none for Canada). All told, there are 30 total lists here.

That makes 80 total lists for this particular ship (4+10+36+30). Running numbers of total passengers aboard per list were also sometimes (but not always) indicated on the left margin of the first page/sheet of a given group list…

In correlating an actual Ellis Island Ship Manifest to the offered NY City Migration Record from Ancestry, the word “Group” on that supplementary record effectively correlates to the term “list” that I’ve used here. So, a bit of a disconnect in phraseology there. The additional Line No. reference is otherwise self-explanatory (again, 30 Lines/Passenger entries per page)…

As to the “grouping” reference darkerhorse made in his comments, while not inaccurate in of itself, I think that term is best used to identify a family of passengers on the same ship (meaning more than 1 person that would otherwise be traveling alone). Of course, those people would normally be listed consecutively in a given list, but there are definitely exceptions to even that - especially in older manifest lists dating to the late 1800’s…

As to this definitional “semantics” (mental gymnastics) that I’m playing here, I do understand that many passengers from the same town/village/comune may have known each other and therefore traveled together as friends/acquaintances, but I (personally) don’t consider them to be a “grouping” of travelers. Just my own take there…

Finally, as to lyn1982’s line of questioning, I would therefore describe Giuseppe Eppes as being Line Entry No. 1 (No. 250 of the running total of passengers who boarded in Naples) on “list” No. 113...

https://www.ancestry.com/search/collect ... cessSource

As to any relation between Ignazio Straccamore (Line Entry No. 13 on the same list) and Giacomo Sisi (Line Entry No. 15 also on that list), IMO, there is none. It’s merely a function of the NYC supplementary list showing all individuals whose last name begins with the letter “S” on that particular list (i.e., No, 113). Of course, there are only two of those, hence that particular “grouping” (ha-ha - another use of that word - the manifest vernacular sure can get pretty confusing)…

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... n&groupId=

I hope this wasn’t “TLDR” for some here! Speaking only for myself, I’m glad I now have a better understanding of how these manifests appear to have been set up and all passengers accounted for...

Mark

[mjclayton1]

BTW, here's the ship...

https://www.birtwistlewiki.com.au/wiki/ ... D%27Italia

[darkerhorse]

Sorry to poach this topic, but does this list imply whether any of the following persons originating in Naples were likely traveling together: 104/9, 104/11, 105/11?

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... n&groupId=

[mjclayton1]

Helps to have the Ship Manifest...

https://www.ancestry.com/search/collect ... cessSource

All three came from Melilli, Siracusa. All three were traveling on to Connecticut, but only the two Angelo's were going to the town of Middletown...

24 year-old Angelo Pitruzzello (104 9) left behind his father, Giuseppe, and was said to be going to Middletown, Connecticut to see his cousin, Angelo Pitruzzello (surprise-surprise), at what I think might be 55 Court St.

18 year-old Angelo Pitruzzello (105 11) left behind his mother, Concetta, and was said to be going to Middletown, Connecticut to see his brother, Salvatore, at 132 ______ St.

Meanwhile, 16 year-old Giuseppe Pitruzzello (104 11) left behind his father, Salvatore, and was said to be going to Cromwell, Connecticut to see his brother, Salvatore, at ______ Main St.

Maybe you can draw some inferences from that...

Mark

[darkerhorse]

I know who they are. I was just wondering if any were traveling together as suggested by the group/list.

[mjclayton1]

I get what you're asking, but "traveling together" is pretty open-ended. Clearly, all three were on the same ship. Also, all hailed from the same town. Nevertheless, to the extent that, for example, the passengers shown on Lines 104/9 and 104/11 aren't consecutive, I'm not sure what conclusion a person could safely draw from even that "separation". I mean, maybe Francisco Versace simply "cut in line"? (I'm just kidding there)...

You know that (age 24) Angelo and Giuseppe have different fathers, so at best they're 1st cousins (or even nephew/uncle, I suppose). Unless you have other concrete evidence from your research from either the States or from Melilli, my "final answer" would be that, while it's entirely likely they knew each other by virtue of sharing the same hometown commune, you could not otherwise presuppose that they were related by blood (although they almost certainly were). They may have simply planned to "travel together" and were otherwise only more distantly related (same surname)...