Ethnicity vs. skin tone

[MarcuccioV]

So here is an image from the 1860 census (Indiana) for my 2GGF's household (paternal direct line). He married his wife that same year (in August). My GGF was born in Apr 1863. This was a boarder/laborer listed for the household -- can anyone make out the name..? The age is 17 based on the census taker's handwriting on other entries. My 2GGF would have been 21 & my 2GGM 18 that year (1860)...

I know the first letter of the last name is an 'R'. The first letter of the first name could be 'J' or 'P' based on other entries.

[darkerhorse]

My wife DID give me an idea of checking census records to see if anyone in the family had an Italian boarder (thereby opening up the possibility of an illegitimate birth). I'll have to check for that as I know some did keep boarders. I also found 5-10% Italian in HER DNA that I need to look for as well...

You could check neighbors too. Again, not just Italian.

Do you mind identifying the surnames of his four grandparents?

[darkerhorse]

So here is an image from the 1860 census (Indiana) for my 2GGF's household (paternal direct line). He married his wife that same year (in August). My GGF was born in Apr 1863. This was a boarder/laborer listed for the household -- can anyone make out the name..? The age is 17 based on the census taker's handwriting on other entries. My 2GGF would have been 21 & my 2GGM 18 that year (1860)...

I know the first letter of the last name is an 'R'. The first letter of the first name could be 'J' or 'P' based on other entries.

Looks like Pepe.

How does Ancestry transcribe it?

[MarcuccioV]

My wife DID give me an idea of checking census records to see if anyone in the family had an Italian boarder (thereby opening up the possibility of an illegitimate birth). I'll have to check for that as I know some did keep boarders. I also found 5-10% Italian in HER DNA that I need to look for as well...

You could check neighbors too. Again, not just Italian.

Do you mind identifying the surnames of his four grandparents?

Van Cleave, Porter, Patterson, Morris

[MarcuccioV]

So here is an image from the 1860 census (Indiana) for my 2GGF's household (paternal direct line). He married his wife that same year (in August). My GGF was born in Apr 1863. This was a boarder/laborer listed for the household -- can anyone make out the name..? The age is 17 based on the census taker's handwriting on other entries. My 2GGF would have been 21 & my 2GGM 18 that year (1860)...

I know the first letter of the last name is an 'R'. The first letter of the first name could be 'J' or 'P' based on other entries.

Looks like Pepe.

How does Ancestry transcribe it?

That's what I thought. Ancestry's transcriptions are incorrect about 25% of the time in some cases. They say Jesse Remb. I don't see that.

[MarcuccioV]

One addendum to above -- my 2GGF was 31 while his wife was 18. He was also enlisted in the Union Army (Civil War) in Jul 1863 (after my GGF was born) but mustered back out 6 days later. He died in 1870 at the age of 37 or 38.

[MarcuccioV]

3 more things to add to the broth. I checked for DNA relatives through the 2GGF. The only connections I have are through my GGF (several) and one through a GGA (who was born 7 years after my GGF). No one else. That doesn't eliminate the possibility that my 2GGF is NOT a blood relation to my GGF.

Aside from 2 first cousins, I have ONLY ONE DNA match with my same paternal line surname, who is a distant cousin (common ancestor beyond 2GG). Interestingly, he has a DIFFERENT Y-DNA haplogroup than I do. Now of course, I don't know if he was adopted, but I'd think if he was blood-related to the direct paternal line we should belong to the same haplogroup. But we don't.

The last, and weakest of the three is my GGF's features. Although I don't have any photos of his direct ancestors, his nose and ear shape COULD indicate a different ancestry than the paper trail (mostly English and a little Dutch/German). The pic below is not a good indicator of skin tone, but in the 2 or 3 photos I have of him, it looks average (not light, not dark). This is the best pic I have of him, he was in his 90's at the time (he died a month before his 100th birthday).

It may of course, be a red herring as well. There are Ancestry "thru-lines" to previous gens on the paternal direct line, but they are lower cM matches that are distant cousins several times removed so I have no idea as to their accuracy. AND they are based mostly on family trees, which may or may not be accurate.

I doubt I'll ever find the answer, but it's a subject worth exploring...

[darkerhorse]

According to your autosomal DNA, what is your ethnic breakdown? Not just Italian, but everything, totaling 100% (from both sides combined).

[darkerhorse]

Also, do scientists know the genetics if skin color?

For example, is there a specific gene that passes on skin color?

Do hair color and eye color get inherited in the same way as skin color? They usually go together in appearance (God doesn't make junk.)

Is all that inherited from one parent or in combination from both parents. I think eye color is a combination from both - B and b, if I recall correctly.

Did the six skin types arise independently/concurrently or did they evolve, one from another (6 from 5, 5 from 4, etc.) over time?

Have you compared your father with Italian (or other) genotypes/phenotypes, which go beyond skin complexion?

[MarcuccioV]

According to your autosomal DNA, what is your ethnic breakdown? Not just Italian, but everything, totaling 100% (from both sides combined).

Difficult question to answer, as every matrix is a little different based on the populations & algorithms used.

23 & Me comes out about average, at 52.7 Italian, 46.4 UK/NW Eur, and 1% Anatolian.

Others show a higher % Italian with different Mediterranean ethnicities (Greek, Levantine, Turkish, etc), Ancestry shows the least Italian >50%, but their Italian population is small, so it's the least accurate.

Then there's GEDmatch, which is complicated & hard to understand, which shows the highest amounts of various Med ethnicities (up to 65% or so).

My true ancestry adds in a trace of Tunisian/Sardinian.

All-in-all, most average out at 50+% Italian/Med, but none of them completely agree...

[MarcuccioV]

Also, do scientists know the genetics if skin color?

For example, is there a specific gene that passes on skin color?

Do hair color and eye color get inherited in the same way as skin color? They usually go together in appearance (God doesn't make junk.)

Is all that inherited from one parent or in combination from both parents. I think eye color is a combination from both - B and b, if I recall correctly.

Did the six skin types arise independently/concurrently or did they evolve, one from another (6 from 5, 5 from 4, etc.) over time?

Have you compared your father with Italian (or other) genotypes/phenotypes, which go beyond skin complexion?

I haven't gone that deep yet, I'm still wading in the shallow water. What I have learned so far is olive skin is most commonly found around the Med, Middle east & S & central America (but I have NO Hispanic DNA)...

[darkerhorse]

The last, and weakest of the three is my GGF's features. Although I don't have any photos of his direct ancestors, his nose and ear shape COULD indicate a different ancestry than the paper trail (mostly English and a little Dutch/German). The pic below is not a good indicator of skin tone, but in the 2 or 3 photos I have of him, it looks average (not light, not dark). This is the best pic I have of him, he was in his 90's at the time (he died a month before his 100th birthday).

He reminds me of Senor Wences, but you said you have no Spanish blood. If you said he was English I wouldn't be surprised either.

[darkerhorse]

According to your autosomal DNA, what is your ethnic breakdown? Not just Italian, but everything, totaling 100% (from both sides combined).

Difficult question to answer, as every matrix is a little different based on the populations & algorithms used.

23 & Me comes out about average, at 52.7 Italian, 46.4 UK/NW Eur, and 1% Anatolian.

Others show a higher % Italian with different Mediterranean ethnicities (Greek, Levantine, Turkish, etc), Ancestry shows the least Italian >50%, but their Italian population is small, so it's the least accurate.

Then there's GEDmatch, which is complicated & hard to understand, which shows the highest amounts of various Med ethnicities (up to 65% or so).

My true ancestry adds in a trace of Tunisian/Sardinian.

All-in-all, most average out at 50+% Italian/Med, but none of them completely agree...

If your 2.7% Italian (in excess of 50% from your mother) comes from your father then that suggests he was 5.4% Italian, consistent with a 100% Italian 2xggp, 50% Italian 3x ggp, etc. Does that fit what you call "recent"?

[darkerhorse]

Judging from African Americans, skin color must be determined from parents in combination, like eye color.

Maybe someone else knows.

[MarcuccioV]

According to your autosomal DNA, what is your ethnic breakdown? Not just Italian, but everything, totaling 100% (from both sides combined).

Difficult question to answer, as every matrix is a little different based on the populations & algorithms used.

23 & Me comes out about average, at 52.7 Italian, 46.4 UK/NW Eur, and 1% Anatolian.

Others show a higher % Italian with different Mediterranean ethnicities (Greek, Levantine, Turkish, etc), Ancestry shows the least Italian >50%, but their Italian population is small, so it's the least accurate.

Then there's GEDmatch, which is complicated & hard to understand, which shows the highest amounts of various Med ethnicities (up to 65% or so).

My true ancestry adds in a trace of Tunisian/Sardinian.

All-in-all, most average out at 50+% Italian/Med, but none of them completely agree...

If your 2.7% Italian (in excess of 50% from your mother) comes from your father then that suggests he was 5.4% Italian, consistent with a 100% Italian 2xggp, 50% Italian 3x ggp, etc. Does that fit what you call "recent"?

Yes. I'd call that recent. It could very well be from another branch.