Lighten-Up

[darkerhorse]

I'm half-Sicilian and my skin browns in the sun, but will burn if I'm not careful.

So, my complexion would be recorded differently depending upon the season. I might be recorded as darker-skinned in the summer and light-to-medium skinned in the winter. If I lived in Sicily I would be brown most of the year - and I would burn more if not careful.

Anyway, I was wondering about the stereotypical darker skin among Italians, especially Sicilians. My paternal grandparents were both 100% Sicilian.

My grandfather was born in Sicily and his dark complexion remained after immigrating to the US at age 18. He didn't lighten up living in America. However, his sister, who had some resemblance to North African, seemed to lighten up over the years.

My grandmother was born in the U.S. and had a light-to-medium complexion (as did her entire family). She could burn, and didn't have much darkening in the sun.

My father was darker than his mother but lighter than is father. He rarely burned, and he darkened in the sun.

Another stereotype is the short Italian. Perhaps, there's some shortness perpetuated in the genes of their ethnic group, but I think it's widely excepted that shorter stature among Italians can be largely attributed to poorer diet and life-style. Many second-(and third) generation Italians in America were taller than their parents due to better diets, healthcare, etc., as well as inter-marriage.

What's your experience with skin complexion and height in your Italian family? Again, I'm more interested in Sicilians.

For example, I'm wondering if Italians have darker skin due to living in Italy, and whether some Italians born in Italy lighten up when they move to America?

[MarcuccioV]

I waited, but no one bit, so I will.

As you know I found Sicilian in both my maternal grandparents (both are prominently 'Southern' Italian in ancestry). My grandfather was dark-complected, my grandmother light-medium. My research tells me your melanin levels remain constant (within a range) your entire life. Only exposure to UV makes any change (an increase), but your overall level remains the same.

You CAN vary it slightly with procedures and diet, but the science on that is iffy at best.

In the case above, neither grandparent had any lightening or change of skin coloring. They lived much of their adult lives in the snowy upper Midwest.

Skin tone varied a bit between family members, I'm sure that is most likely DNA-related.

As for stature, both my grandparents were short (matronly and stocky). Their kids were all taller, as are the next gen. If diet is a factor, then it has to be at a young age -- my grandfather emigrated at 19 & he married & brought my grandmother to the US at the same age. I have no idea the height or body build of any of their forebears.

I CAN tell you based on the death records from Italy that Septuagenarians were rare, never mind Octogenarians. Most died in their 60's or before.

[darkerhorse]

Only exposure to UV makes any change (an increase), but your overall level remains the same.

Do you mean exposure makes a temporary change?

[darkerhorse]

Are Italians generally darker-skinned just because they get more sun exposure, or would they be darker-skinned even if they lived in another climate?

I'm sure sun exposure increases darkness, but are they darker to begin with?

[MarcuccioV]

Only exposure to UV makes any change (an increase), but your overall level remains the same.

Do you mean exposure makes a temporary change?

Yes. Exposure causes increased melanocytes as a defense mechanism (for UV protection, as they absorb & disperse UV rays). They remain in that layer of skin until it reaches the surface & dies off. As your skin develops at the deepest layer, it contains your "normal" melanocyte level...

[MarcuccioV]

Are Italians generally darker-skinned just because they get more sun exposure, or would they be darker-skinned even if they lived in another climate?

I'm sure sun exposure increases darkness, but are they darker to begin with?

My guess is it's all in the various ethnicities that make up the "Italian" race. Many came from Anatolia & the Middle east (as well as India, Greece, etc) & those ancient peoples no doubt brought the higher melanin genes with them.

Northern Italians are lighter generally because of more Northern Indo-European mixtures. I've also read that there is still debate on where the Etruscans came from. Some say northern Europe, some even claim they were from the Orient & arrived by boat...

[MarcuccioV]

To clarify, they most likely have the higher melanin levels from inherited DNA; more extended sun exposure kept the melanin levels from decreasing as DNA mutated over the centuries...

[darkerhorse]

Elvis' coloring is an interesting case.

There seems to be a "genotype" in the South with that coloring, like Tennessee Ernie Ford, Jake Hess, Gomer Pyle, etc. I thought it was French or Creole influence but Elvis was German and Scottish (and French?), though he's rumored to have had some Native American and Hebrew ancestry would could account for his coloring. No known Italian or Spanish ancestry. I wonder if his daughter has had a DNA test? I doubt Gomer was Hebrew.

[darkerhorse]

It might be other members of the Statesmen, more than Jake, who fit the type.

[darkerhorse]

Being from the South I suppose they might have some African-American ancestry, too.

[darkerhorse]

I recall learning about a racial scheme in college, based on skull type instead of skin color, which classified Africans as closest to Scandinavians.

I suppose it's subjective to a degree.

[MarcuccioV]

I recall learning about a racial scheme in college, based on skull type instead of skin color, which classified Africans as closest to Scandinavians.

I suppose it's subjective to a degree.

That one I had not heard. I only know of the 3 general skull types: Caucasoid, Mongoloid & Negroid. Most Indo-Europeans are Caucasoid; Africans Negroid & E Asians & Native Americans Mongoloid.

Never heard that Scandinavians had anything but Caucasoid skulls. I'm trying to picture the 2 and I can't see any resemblance in face shape or features.

If anything I'd say Scandinavians are closer to Mongoloid than Negroid.

I have to agree it's most likely subjective at best.

[darkerhorse]

Classification had something to do with the head. It was meant to point out that color distinctions are arbitrary from a sociological perspective.

[Italianthro]

My guess is it's all in the various ethnicities that make up the "Italian" race. Many came from Anatolia & the Middle east (as well as India, Greece, etc) & those ancient peoples no doubt brought the higher melanin genes with them.

Northern Italians are lighter generally because of more Northern Indo-European mixtures. I've also read that there is still debate on where the Etruscans came from. Some say northern Europe, some even claim they were from the Orient & arrived by boat...

Actually, it was LIGHT skin that was brought by Farmers from the Middle East. Hunter-Gatherers had dark skin:

https://racialreality.blogspot.com/2015 ... rmers.html

The steppe Indo-Europeans were darker than people think too:

https://archhades.blogspot.com/2015/10/ ... oking.html

And all Modern Europeans have those ancestries, not just Italians:

https://racialreality.blogspot.com/2019 ... opean.html