Death Certificate Question

[VittorioE]

Okay... Wondering if I'm going to have a problem... I have all of my documensts...

- No Records from the USICS....
- No Records from the National Archives...
- No Records from the only TWO Counties my Nonno lived in

and then... I just got his death certificate and it says... Citizen Of What Country and it says U.S.A. which I know isn't true!!

Is this going to be a problem with the consulate!!??

VE

[ncaprio]

I'm in a similar situation... and although I have not gone through the process yet... what I understand from reading this forum is that MOST of what is filled out on a US Death Certificate other than the Date and Cause of death is basically supplied by the next of kin... and they are mostly guessing. My family assumed that my grandfather naturalized... but he never actually did. I wouldn't worry about it... but I'm interested to see what others think. Carmine - I know you've commented before?!

[johnnyonthespot]

In my case, my mother was "certain" that neither her father nor my father's father had naturalized as she had never heard any talk of it. I got essentially the same response from one of my older cousins (let me explain: my father's eldest brother was married to my mother's eldest sister, so my cousin and I shared the same four Italian grandparents).

I was prepared for the long haul, having to find proof of non-naturalization, when I received my paternal grandfather's death certificate and saw that it said he was a US citizen. I assumed this was a mistake, but I did ultimately locate his naturalization documents. Months later, I went through the same thing with my maternal grandfather, whose death certificate also said he was a US citizen and whose naturalization documents I also found.

Vittorio - have you found censuses which show your grandfather (?) as an Alien? What time frame are we talking about?

Would you care to post your ancestor's full name and birthdate/year so we can have a llok?

[corrado]

you may want to interline or amend the death certificate, that is an easy process

[VittorioE]

Hey Corrado... how do I go about getting an interline or amended death certificate... I'm dealing with the great Garden State of New Jersey!

Hey Carmine - my grandfather came after the 1930 Census... So I am actually applying for the 1940 Census... for further proof!

Here's my question... who makes the decisions... is it the consulate officer or the comune? I would hate to get through the consulate visit - only to have my application bounced back from Italy!!

[mler]

The consulate makes the decision and only very rarely does the comune object.

I agree that the death certificate is anecdotal, but census records are also anecdotal, and some consulates insist on them. I think you should make every effort to amend the death certificate because the consulate can use it to question your eligibility. NJ's information page states the following:

"Correction requests for a death certificate requires the signature of an individual with definite knowledge and documentary proof of the requested amendment. Note: Only the medical certifier or medical examiner has the authority to amend any medical related data on the death certificate."

Your letters of "no record" may well be enough.

[VittorioE]

Thanks!

Mler!

Already on it!

[VittorioE]

Okay - update... I spoke with the NJ Registar in Bergen County - who was really really nice... she suggested I speak with the funeral home... since they have the easiest time amending Death Certificates. So I did... spoke with the Funeral Director... who was the SAME ONE who signed the ORIGINAL death certificate 25 Years ago (he was a babe of 22 at the time)!!

He said to fill out the form and he would bring it down to have it changed... it has to go to TRENTON however which could take months...

Now... at the SAME TIME... I received another copy my grandfather's death certificate (along with his marriage certificate) directly from the County... I ordered from both the state and the county because I wasn't sure which I would get first...

Okay on the COUNTY Certificate... is simple... Name... date of Birth... date of death... cause of death... name of spouse... nothing about citizenship or birthplace or parents or war service or any of the ancilery stuff.

Here's my question... do I go through the process of having the other one amended anyway?!

Thoughts? Sorry I'm being such a freak... but my appointment is in 2.5 weeks and I still need apostiles and translations!

[mler]

It seems to make sense to use the county certificate. If you DO need the other one, the consulate will tell you and you will have lost only 2.5 weeks, not a long time in the scheme of things.

BTW, you would still be permitted to submit your application. If you need additional documents, you can submit them when you get them and they will be added to your file.

[VittorioE]

I decided to go ahead and the original amended - even through I may not need it - or get it - in time for my meeting.

The funeral director was so nice to take time out of his day to walk me through the process and I had already filled out the forms and had them notarized... so I figured while I was at it - I would correct my great-grandfather's name (my grandfather's father) on the death certificate as well.

Might as well have all of the info correct.

Today and yesterday were tough days... I remember his funeral so well... and I remember being at the funeral home as if it were yesterday... 25 years fly by.

He was a great man... he came to the US by himself when he was 18 - father back in Italy remarried - his mom dead. He built himself from NOTHING, one of a hundred laborers who came to the US for a better life, and was a millionaire by the time he died.

He would think this obsession with Italy and gaining Italian Citizenship ridiculous He was so poor there... and his life was so miserable he never went back.

It makes me smile... and sad at the same time.

PS. He also never forgave my father for giving me the same name as a monarch he also refereed to as ridiculous!!! (well he had some other choice names for his majesty as well)

And, yes that IS my real name.