Italian - French Citizen Born in Algeria

[SuzanneSap]

First let me say, GREAT Site!! Some really helpful links and conversations helped me move my research along, but I have come to a stand still with my paternal Grandfather.

I am trying to locate the town in which his family lived in Italy or if possible my Grandfathers Birth Certificate.

His name was Giovanni Allegretti, he was born December 15, 1902 in El Mader or El Madhu Constantine Algeria. He is a French citizen. His Parents were Umberto Allegretti and Annunciata Sardi. This information came by way of Giovanni's discharge papers from the Italian Military where he served from January 1922 through to February 24, 1924. (Could it be possible that he is a dual citizen?) He was released from service at Taranto, Italy. He came to the US in 1924, 1927 and stayed in 1928, but he stayed illegally. He was a merchant seaman on a freighter and deserted. I located his INS records at the Kansas city Archives and the FBI could not locate his port of entry as stated. He is my enigma. I would love to see how far I can get in learning about where his family lived in either Algeria or Italy. Do you have any suggestions on how I can go about obtaining his Italian Military documents if I do not have a commune location? Thank you!

[TerraLavoro]

I would write an email to the founder of this site: http://www.procida-family.com/US/index.htm

Although most of the members now live in France, their ancestors are Italians who settled in Algeria and Tunisia, before moving to France after the independence of France's north African colonys.

This is a membership site, but I am sure that you will receive a helpful response.

[jennabet]

SuzanneSap, I checked Pagine Bianche (White Pages) in the region of Abruzzo and found 13 listings for the name Allegretti, six of which are in the province of Chieti where the town of Orsogna is located as it's possible this is where your grand-fathers parents come from.

From a book called "Abruzzesi degli Stati Uniti" (Abruzzese of the United States) which was presented to me by my Italian cousins when I moved to Italy, I have found the following information on the Italians in this province of Abruzzo:

Carbonari have arrived.

"Two or three phantom travel agencies sprang up in Orsogna that had mysterious links to MARSEILLES, FRANCE. For a cash payment up front they assured the client that he could board a Merchant ship at that port and enter the port of NEW YORK. Everything was done in great secrecy (FBI doesn't know where he entered) and even a primitive code was set up. For example, to let those interested know that important developments had taken place, a large white bed sheet would be hung from the balcony of the agency. The correspondence between the headquarters in MARSEILLES and the agency in Orsogna was sent to a fake address. The telegram always bore the same message: "Carbonari essere arrivati" announcing that there had been a safe arrival, albeit illegal, in New York."

It's possible that because your grand-father was French, he couldn't get permission from the Italian government to sail legally from Italy even though he could have been a dual citizen depending on the actions taken by his parents. Since Taranto where he was released from his military duty is also on the Adriatic Coast it's possible that he traveled back to his parent's region and used the agency described above to provide him passage. Also there might be some connection to Canada for you as well because many of the French "merchant seamen" eventually escaped to Montreal, Canada where they did not experience a language barrier.

[SuzanneSap]

Thank you! This is wonderful information. Tell me, if you know, my mother said Giovanni told her he entered Miami. Have you ever heard any entering Miami for the cash payment. Again, thank you so much this excellent piece of history.

[SuzanneSap]

I will continue the search and let you know how I made out. Thanks again!

[suanj]

First let me say, GREAT Site!! Some really helpful links and conversations helped me move my research along, but I have come to a stand still with my paternal Grandfather.

I am trying to locate the town in which his family lived in Italy or if possible my Grandfathers Birth Certificate.

His name was Giovanni Allegretti, he was born December 15, 1902 in El Mader or El Madhu Constantine Algeria. He is a French citizen. His Parents were Umberto Allegretti and Annunciata Sardi. This information came by way of Giovanni's discharge papers from the Italian Military where he served from January 1922 through to February 24, 1924. (Could it be possible that he is a dual citizen?) He was released from service at Taranto, Italy. He came to the US in 1924, 1927 and stayed in 1928, but he stayed illegally. He was a merchant seaman on a freighter and deserted. I located his INS records at the Kansas city Archives and the FBI could not locate his port of entry as stated. He is my enigma. I would love to see how far I can get in learning about where his family lived in either Algeria or Italy. Do you have any suggestions on how I can go about obtaining his Italian Military documents if I do not have a commune location? Thank you!

Hi,
I searched in Algeria civil records, and no one Allegretti civil records:

http://anom.archivesnationales.culture.gouv.fr/caomec2/
Giovanni was a italian Citizen, because he had italian parents, and also if he was born in foreign country, the italian citizenship is transmited, always and only by blood's right. The fact that he served in Italian Army confirm is italian citizenship... You can post the discharge document?
Regards,
suanj

[suanj]

the arrival:

Giovanni Allegretti

Pennsylvania, Philadelphia Passenger List Index Cards
Name Giovanni Allegretti
Event Type Immigration
Event Date 1928
Event Place Philadelphia, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States
Gender Male
Birthplace Elmader Algeria

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=1921483
suanj

[suanj]

the mother seeming Assunta first name, info by Giovanni marriage record:

John Allegrette

mentioned in the record of John Allegrette and Susie Bersani

Name John Allegrette
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 17 Mar 1932
Event Place Manhattan, New York, New York, United States
Event Place (Original) Manhattan, New York, New York
Gender Male
Age 29
Marital Status Single
Race White
Birth Year (Estimated) 1903
Birthplace France
Father's Name Umberto
Mother's Name Assunta Sardi
Spouse's Name Susie Bersani
Spouse's Gender Female
Spouse's Age 24
Spouse's Marital Status Single
Spouse's Race White
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated) 1908
Spouse's Birthplace N Y City
Spouse's Father's Name Agostino
Spouse's Mother's Name Giovanna Maruffi
suanj

[jennabet]

Suanj because the grand-father was born outside of Italy, if Suzanne wants to try for Italian citizenship she will have to have the birth information for the great-grandfather Umberto Allegretti as well. Where do you think the Allegretti family was from in Italy (possibly Abruzzo because he entered in Philadelphia and Pennsylvania has highest number of Abruzzese)? Also why do you think they went to Algeria? The grand-father was born in 1903 and that was before World War 1 so I am curious about this. I'm sure Suzanne will be happy with the information you found for her.

[suanj]

No jennabet, he served in Italian Army or Navy, because the family returned in Italy, surely, I am positive abt that, he served because he was in Italy and his birth record was transcribed also in Italy, I am sure abt that, no doubt, so,
It is enough to find his residence place and finding the his foreign birth record filed in the italian commune, no problem for dual citizenship... The problem is to find where the family lived in Italy...
Regards,
suanj

[suanj]

I believe that his italian place was near the sea...because he served in the Navy, in Taranto the Navy, no doubt...so his heritage was of some place on or near the sea cost.... I believe that the family coming from Tuscany, it coul be probable...maybe in Livorno province.... Normally, the military service, Army or Navy, it is no in the same region where the man coming from.... It is a bit hard to find his italian place, but no impossible...it is necessary to make a deep search ...and to collect how much records is possible to find..... I am sorry that I don' t found his algerian birth record, but no one Allegretti, maybe the surname was mispelled.. In many records are also the italian birthplace of parents, and this is very helpful, but I cannot find his birth record.....
Regards,
suanj

[jennabet]

I think when she finds the birth record of the grand-father she will see that often the stories that are passed down is not always what really took place. She has some good information now to go on.

[suanj]

Searching abt Giovanni, I found that in North Africa it was a people, Sardi, naturalized, and his birthplace was Taranto
http://jpu.aieuls.com/Naturalisations/N ... a1930S.htm
But the discharge document, say Taranto birthplace, residence place, or military place?
You can post the document here?
Thanks,
suanj

[SuzanneSap]

Good Day to all. Yes, I will scan and upload the discharge document that I have on my grandfather Giovanni. I believe it says that he was discharged from Taranto, not his place of birth or residence. As the story goes he jumped ship in Philadelphia in 1928, but the FBI in the States has no record of his entry into the port of Philadelphia. I found some other documents of his arrival in 1924 which I will also send. Giovanni married Sussie Bersani. I believe you found my ancestry tree. That is the right Giovanni. I have seen his name spelled Allegrette, Allegretto and Allegretta. He has also gone by the name John as well as Jean. My mother says that he came from Tuscany, but I have not yet found proof. I was also told that he had a sister or sisters and one of their names was Alagrina(?) Allegretti. I will send you what I have and once again Thank you all so much for the help!!

[suanj]

Hi,
Thanks to reply!
Abt your genealogic tree I don' t found, just I searched on familysearch website.
Personally I am a bit positive abt Tuscany as birth region, but is hard to say with precision, because both the surnames are populars in Italy.

The problem is to find his algerian birth record...
The Constantine, is a town, and that is ok, but the only clue abt his algerian birthplace, is the Philadelphia record, and I read just Elmedar, and I cannot find this place in the algerians civil records.... So I don' t know if Elmedar is a village or a Constantine's hamlet...

Before to search in Italy is necessary to find Giovanni birth record in Algeria... Maybe the parents married also in Algeria and by that we can descover more.....
However my main idea is that the parents coming from Elba isle or however Livorno area, on the coast...
Best regards,
suanj