Help reading a "denunzio di matrimonio"

[sertolicell]

Hi there,
can someone please help reading this "Denunzie, proclami e bandi 1739-1797" from the Sant'Ippolito al Capo parish in Palermo (entry 857, 12 July 1746):
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cat=559236

I am only able to read the names Lorenzo Oliveri and Angela Buffa and that they are both from Palermo.

thanks
Roberto

[erudita74]

Unfortunately not much more useful genealogical info in the record. Basically, the dates of the three banns of marriage appear in the margin of the record -the 1st on the 15th, 2nd on the 17th, and 3rd on the 24th. These would have been announced in the church on these dates to give anyone who had an opposition to the upcoming marriage a chance to come forward and the opposition. The prospective spouses are named, which you already know, they were from Palermo, as you already know, and the only other info is that they were both single-never before married. No parents' names are given, no ages of the groom and bride, etc.

Erudita

[sertolicell]

Many thanks Erudita

[erudita74]

If the actual marriage record is online for this time period, you might get additional info about this couple. It would be dated after the date of the last bann, but I can't say for certain, how soon after.

Erudita

[sertolicell]

I have found this from the "Procesetti", but I am only able to read "Pietro Buffa" (image 1209) who I presume is the father of the bride:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cat=559236
and
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cat=559236

[erudita74]

Roberto
Still trying to decipher the record accurately. I'm far from a master with the Latin language, and the abbreviations are difficult. There is no set format for these records either. Each priest did his own thing. I can tell you that, at the top of the second page, are the names of two witnesses. D (for the title Don) Blasio Maruko (this should be Biagio Maruco/a-Maruca appears to be the current spelling of the Italian surname in the town, although it may also be currently spelled with an o at the end. I haven't had a chance to double check. Pietro Buffa was NOT the father of the bride. He was also a witness.

I haven't got much more time to work on this evening, as hubby and I have plans. I'll keep looking it over, and adding info, as I can decipher it. There are some other volunteers on the forum, who live in Italy and have studied Latin for many more years than I ever did, who may be able to translate some of this more easily than me. I will keep trying though. I just want to make sure that the info I give you is accurate.

Erudita

[sertolicell]

Erudita, I am so grateful for your help! The thing is I am pretty stuck here and not able to go further back in time.
So Pietro Buffa was *not* the name of the bride's father, but likely an uncle or brother (unless brother shared the same name). This is very useful information, many thanks.

I have found the Atto di matrimonio (entry 101):
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cat=559236

Although I have difficulty reading anything similar to "testimoni", "testes" or abbreviations hereof at the end of the text, following the conclusions from the "Procesetti", I suppose the mentioned Giuseppe Oliveri is not likely to be the groom's father, but a witness (?) But then on the other hand, why do the two names differ in the "Atto" (Giuseppe Oliveri and Pietro Buffa) and in the "Procesetti" (Biagio Maruco and Pietro Buffa), respectively??

Thanks, Roberto

[erudita74]

Roberto

I can’t say for certain whether Pietro Buffa was or wasn’t the bride’s father. First of all, my ancestry and my husband’s comes from different towns in southern Italy and Sicily, so I’m honestly not familiar with the records in this town, or church, and have no idea how common the Buffa surname is there. In my one ancestral town in Agrigento Province, Sicily (no church records available for there), the surname Mangiaracina is like the name Smith in the U.S.. There are so many civil records with the surname, but there is no way they are all related to one another. The name translates to “eat grapes,” which you may know. So, in this town and parish, Buffa may be the surname of branches of a single family, or it may not be. Pietro COULD be the bride’s father, or he could be a male relative (brother, uncle, cousin), or maybe it’s just coincidental that he has the same surname as the bride. In later period civil records, we do find that the witnesses at the marriage were said to be produced by the groom and bride themselves, but not in these church records.

The priests chose to include what they wanted in these records. In the mid 500s, when the Sacred Council of Trent dictated that local parishes had to keep registers of the various events in their parishes (births/baptisms, marriages, deaths/burials), the Council did not dictate what format those records had to take, or what info had to be included. So a priest or his cleric writing one record may include certain things, and then in another record, even on the same page in his book written on the same day, or a day or two later, may include other info-sometimes more; sometimes less. So, unless the record spells out the relationship between the witnesses and the parties in the record-in this case, the groom and bride-you can take a guess as to what the reality is, but your guess may be incorrect. So maybe Pietro Buffa was the bride’s father; but maybe he wasn’t. Hopefully some other record will lead you to the correct conclusion.

The processetti were supporting documents for an upcoming marriage. If you see the name Biagio Maruco as a witness in other records in this section of the church book, and the surname of neither the groom nor bride matches, then he was probably just a church witness. As to the other witness whose name does match, it’s just possible that the family member wasn’t available when the couple went to the priest or his clerk to prepare the preparatory documents, but then was able to attend, or be present at the actual church ceremony. So the witness Giuseppe Oliveri could very well be the groom’s father but, once again, there is the possibility, until proven otherwise, that he wasn’t.

In one of my husband’s ancestral towns in Catania province, for example, the priests actually state in the records, the relationship between godparents and the child, or between the witnesses in the marriage, and the groom and the bride. But I think it’s the only parish in which I have personally seen this. Normally, if the priest or his clerk has not specified relationships, you just have to arrive at your own conclusions and rely on additional records to accurately sort out relationships.

I don't really know what else to say about this subject and hope I'm not in any way misleading you.

Erudita

[sertolicell]

Here Pietro Buffa suddenly appears living together with the Lorenzo Oliveri / Angela Buffa family at the "Numerazione delle anime" in 1765:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cat=559236

He does not live there the year before or after. If he is the father he would have moved in after becoming a widower.

-Roberto