Petition for Naturalization in 1903, but listed as PA in 1920 :shock:

[ferrara]

Hello,

I am trying to obtain citizenship through my F-GM-GGF-GGGF.

My GGGF, Emanuel Ferraro, was born in 1881 and lived in Italy (Palermo, from what I hear). He came to the US in 1900, and submitted a Petition for Naturalization card (a small index card) on Jan 6, 1903.

Emanuel's son, Emanuel Jr., was born in 1908. However, in the 1920 census, Emanuel Sr. is still listed as living in NY with status PA His wife, Therese, is listed as AL.

This leads me to believe that Emanuel Sr. did not ACTUALLY naturalize before the birth of Emanuel Jr. in 1908, despite the fact that he submitted a card.

Am I correct in this? What should be my next step to finding the date of actual naturalization, if any?

[mler]

Although the typical scenario is a naturalization several months following the petition, some immigrants, for a numbers of reasons, never followed through with the actual naturalization.

You need to continue to review the available databases and request naturalization documents from the USCIS. If there is no record, they will send you a letter to that effect.

[datxcali]

Hello,

I am trying to obtain citizenship through my F-GM-GGF-GGGF.

My GGGF, Emanuel Ferraro, was born in 1881 and lived in Italy (Palermo, from what I hear). He came to the US in 1900, and submitted a Petition for Naturalization card (a small index card) on Jan 6, 1903.

Emanuel's son, Emanuel Jr., was born in 1908. However, in the 1920 census, Emanuel Sr. is still listed as living in NY with status PA His wife, Therese, is listed as AL.

This leads me to believe that Emanuel Sr. did not ACTUALLY naturalize before the birth of Emanuel Jr. in 1908, despite the fact that he submitted a card.

Am I correct in this? What should be my next step to finding the date of actual naturalization, if any?

Unfortunately, the date you provided appears to be his actual date of naturalization. I have found the census to be pretty spot on, but it is wrong occasionally. Sorry :\

I suggest looking for a different possible line.

[ferrara]

I see, so this small card is actually his proof of naturalization. Disappointing. I thought I needed a "Certificate" of naturalization, which was a full-sized document.

The other strange thing is that his wife is listed as AL. Would she not have automatically been naturalized along with him?

[mler]

Actually, this card would not be sufficient to prove naturalization to the consulate, but it is proof that he did indeed naturalize and that a naturalization certificate is available. Unfortunately, the date he naturalized would not work for you.

As far as his wife is concerned, it depends. When did they marry? If they married after he naturalized, she would have automatically become a US citizen (pre-Cable Act). She may not have realized this and have considered herself still to be an alien. If this is the scenario, you would then have a 1948 case.

[ferrara]

Is it possible that, despite the presence of an Index for Petition for Naturalization, if the USCIS cannot locate the Naturalization Certificate in their archives, they would issue me a "No Record Found" and I could then present this in court?

My father, whose line I am pursuing, was born in 1959, so would this not automatically rule out the possibility of 1948 case?

[mler]

Your father's date of birth is not an issue here; it's the date your ggf was born (1908). You have more than a Petition for Naturalization on this card. It specifically states that your gggf naturalized in 1903. According to the laws pre-1948, he lost citizenship on that date, for himself, his wife, his children, and his future children. The census simply confirms this naturalization.

When was he married? If he married after he naturalized, his wife became a US citizen without herself naturalizing. This was before the Cable Act, so it was automatic. In that scenario, you may have a 1948 case. She did not naturalize on her own behalf and thus in a court case, you could argue that she did not lose Italian citizenship and could pass it to her son. A lawyer could tell you if this is feasible, but there is no path through your gggf.

[datxcali]

Is it possible that, despite the presence of an Index for Petition for Naturalization, if the USCIS cannot locate the Naturalization Certificate in their archives, they would issue me a "No Record Found" and I could then present this in court?

My father, whose line I am pursuing, was born in 1959, so would this not automatically rule out the possibility of 1948 case?

They would make you check with both the NARA and the local courts as well. I did also find your GGGF's actual naturalization record. It is located at the NARA.

But it does appear that your great-great grandparents got married a year before he naturalized. So you do have a path through her since she was naturalized involuntarily and was, therefore, able to transmit citizenship to your GGF.

[sceaminmonkey]

https://www.uscis.gov/history-and-genea ... hing-index.
Could always do an index search and see what they say . Unless it was a local or county court. Census is riddled with errors for early days. Usually other non native english speakers going around asking questions door to door to people who could hardly read themselves.

[mler]

But it does appear that your great-great grandparents got married a year before he naturalized. So you do have a path through her since she was naturalized involuntarily and was, therefore, able to transmit citizenship to your GGF.

And this needs to be emphasized.

Your great grandfather's naturalization before July 1, 1912 (and it is very clear that he did indeed naturalize), effectively ended the citizenship line for both his born and unborn children. However, since he was married before his naturalization, his wife became Italian at the moment they married.

This means there is at least a possibility that you can try the 1948 route claiming that the wife's citizenship was lost involuntarily. I would be more confident of this approach has the naturalization occurred after 1912, but I still think you have a chance with this. You will definitely need to check with a lawyer to determine if a 1948 case is viable.

[ferrara]

But it does appear that your great-great grandparents got married a year before he naturalized. So you do have a path through her since she was naturalized involuntarily and was, therefore, able to transmit citizenship to your GGF.

And this needs to be emphasized.

Your great grandfather's naturalization before July 1, 1912 (and it is very clear that he did indeed naturalize), effectively ended the citizenship line for both his born and unborn children. However, since he was married before his naturalization, his wife became Italian at the moment they married.

This means there is at least a possibility that you can try the 1948 route claiming that the wife's citizenship was lost involuntarily. I would be more confident of this approach had [edited] the naturalization occurred after 1912, but I still think you have a chance with this. You will definitely need to check with a lawyer to determine if a 1948 case is viable.

datxcali and mler, I find your points encouraging and extremely helpful, thank you!

I am a bit confused though, as all of the sites which help people like me to get citizenship list ONLY GGGF as the ultimate route, not GGGM. Perhaps the possibility of going through my GGGM is what this 1948 case you speak of is all about? I am not familiar with the 1948 route.

The fact that GGGM Theresa is listed as AL on the 1920 census adds some weight to this route, I would expect.

Can you recommend a resource for finding a lawyer? I suppose my most practical next step would be to present this information to the nearest Italian Consulate.

[ferrara]

A timeline/summary those who are just viewing the thread:

1881 - GGGF born, Italy
1902 - Married GGGM, Italian citizen
1903 - GGGF Naturalized
1905 - GGGF receives US passport
1908 - GGF born, US
1920 - Census lists GGGF as PA and GGGM as AL
1935 - GGF marries
1937 - GM born, US
1959 - F born, US

[mler]

You will find several suggestions on this site if you do a 1948 search. Yes, it is a 1948 case because your ggf would have obtained citizenship in 1908 through his mother before the 1948 law was enacted.

I will say that there are not many cases of this nature dealing with pre-1912 naturalizations, but a lawyer can tell you whether the possibilities are good.

Best of luck.

[datxcali]

datxcali and mler, I find your points encouraging and extremely helpful, thank you!

I am a bit confused though, as all of the sites which help people like me to get citizenship list ONLY GGGF as the ultimate route, not GGGM. Perhaps the possibility of going through my GGGM is what this 1948 case you speak of is all about? I am not familiar with the 1948 route.

The fact that GGGM Theresa is listed as AL on the 1920 census adds some weight to this route, I would expect.

Can you recommend a resource for finding a lawyer? I suppose my most practical next step would be to present this information to the nearest Italian Consulate.

The process can be very confusing at the beginning. It may or may not get more confusing once you start collecting documents.

The 1920 census doesn't matter because you know for sure that your GGGF naturalized before then. So the 1920 census was in obvious error.

It seems to me that you do have a good chance at a 1948 case. In 1922, a law was passed called the "Cable Act". Prior to this, women automatically naturalized with their husbands. You have an added complication in that if an immigrant naturalized prior to July 1, 1912, his entire family naturalized with him.

My case is nowhere near as complicated as yours so I can't offer a ton of advice, unfortunately. That doesn't mean that you're out of luck though.

There are two groups that I recommend joining that are more specifically geared towards dual citizenship:

1) A Facebook group dedicated to dual citizenship: https://www.facebook.com/groups/23386646249/

2) A forum completely dedicated to dual citizenship: italiancitizenship.freeforums.org.

As far as a lawyer goes, here are some options:

Luigi Paiano
Giovanni Di Ruggiero
Marco Mellone
Marco Mazzeschi
Donatella Lenoci
Marco Pepe

They all have extensive track records with a lot of success. I would recommend contacting all of them and seeing what they say.

Good luck!

[ferrara]

datxcali, I have contacted four of the lawyers listed and have not received any responses. Is this a busy time for the avvocatos?

ferrara