Ideas about FLORIO's

[stfrancis]

From the data available Michele Florio was born 1840-1846, prob closer to 1845,

Caterina Gorga/Urga born 1845-1849, prob closer to 1845...

[suanj]

On 1880 I see a James son, maybe he is Alfredo..? however abt Caterina maiden name, the doubt remain:
Lillie Florio
mentioned in the record of Louis Balzamo and Lillie Florio
Name Louis Balzamo
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 26 Apr 1900
Event Place Manhattan, New York, New York, United States
Event Place (Original) Manhattan, New York
Gender Male
Age 27
Marital Status Single
Race White
Birth Year (Estimated) 1873
Birthplace Italy
Father's Name Pasgnali Balzamo
Mother's Name Celia Mocei
Spouse's Name Lillie Florio
Spouse's Gender Female
Spouse's Age 21
Spouse's Marital Status Single
Spouse's Race White
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated) 1879
Spouse's Birthplace New York
Spouse's Father's Name Michele Florio
Spouse's Mother's Name Catharina George

It is impossible to say the right maiden name: Gorga or Urga??
suanj

[stfrancis]

Correct. By the time 1880 census, Alfredo and Giovanni were born (at the same time). Giovanni was prob a still birth or failed. Lilly (my GM) is listed. Or James maybe was interpreted as John and maybe they exchanged the two..). Their ages, and the exact address match his death (21 Mott st), but its impossible to know for sure.

Correct. Lilly Florio and Louis Balzamo (Balsamo) is my GPs. (Cannot locate Louis arrival in NY but that is another matter...)

[stfrancis]

I noticed on my birth document for the 2nd born son, of MIchele Florio, his full name is entered as Alfred LOUIS SERENO Florio.

IM not sure what that name is but I entered it (SERENO) in Italian Names map and it is most prominent in the Piemonte region....
Im not sure if this helpful at all...

[suanj]

Also on the marriage record of the son born on her second marriage, the her maiden name seeming close to Urga:
Joseph Focarile
mentioned in the record of Joseph Focarile and Ida Palladino
Name
Joseph Focarile
Spouse's Name
Ida Palladino
Event Date
23 Oct 1905
Event Place
Manhattan, New York, New York
Father's Name
John
Mother's Name
Catherine Ulgo
Spouse's Father's Name
Michael
Spouse's Mother's Name
Carmele Laurino
--------------------------------
suanj

[stfrancis]

Correct from the ACTUAL DOCS related to Caterina , I read:

Caterina Maria Ship GORGA (1875) ???
Lilly birth URGO (1878)
Alfredo birth URGO (1880)
Giov birth URGA (1880)
Caterina 2nd Marriage (Focarile) GORGA (1885)
Caterina Death URAGO (1889)
Lilly Marriage GORGO/GORGA (1900)
Son (Focarile ) frm 2nd Marriage URLA (1905)
Michele Jr Death URCCA (1908)

Excluding ship, we have 6 of 8 docs with Urga or similar, incl 3 of the earliest ones...

[stfrancis]

I entered URGA in ItalianNames.com got zero results. For URGO, I get only, mostly in Basilicata region. Seems a very rare name either way.

Gorga gives 352.

[suanj]

I believe that the birth region is the Basilicata... I am convinced.... But we can search in Potenza province no in Matera province, because no old civil records on line...we have 3 surnames: FLORIO, URGA/URGO/GORGA and Caterina mother maide name, Matera, because Mattera is popular in Campania, but in Basilicata Matera, as the town and province name... so I believe right the Basilicata region.. all the surnames are populars... because no marriage record in New York, they married in Italy, and because Michele came alone, Caterina came with some relative.. the first son was born on 1876, so she arrived 2 o 3 years after Michele...
suanj

[stfrancis]

great, thank you. hopefully i will find another clue to narrow it more.

(The first son, Michele (JR), on most documents says hes born in NY, but on most of the birth returns for his children they say he was born in Italy....)
I have him in 1905 census at 198 Mott St
He cant be found on the 1900 census, even though I have his exact adress in 1899, and 1901, I tried using Stephen Morse ED finder and look up by address.

[stfrancis]

brother Michele, born 1876
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... print=true

sister Lily born oct 14, 1878, baptized dec 28, 1880

brother Alfredo, born Feb 27, 1880, baptized dec 28, 1880.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... print=true


brother, Giovanni Florio was born Mar 20, 1880, a return of birth filed Mar 27, dept health.



Appears to be twins, since I cannot seem to find any trace of Giovanni after birth, I assumed he died right away. What I dont understand is that an official record of birth was emitted, yet I find NO death return Any ideas why not ...?

also no trace of birth record for first born (assumed), Michele ?

another idea...the certificate for Giovanni says its Catherina 4th child, assuming this is correct, I dont follow the naming convention used, if tradition says the first son has paternal grandfather name, and first daughter has maternal grandmother name ...and yet we know the fathers name is Michele, and the maternal grandmother name is Theresa !

[stfrancis]

Suanj,

do you think there is a way to search military records at the state level archives (Basilicata- Potenza and Matera), for any of the names....can this give us a way to find the commune of origin....?

im noticing there are no complete civil records online, for Salerno, Potenza, or Matera

[suanj]

Hi no military records on line abtBasilicata region... but maybe you can write in Potenza provincial archive; asking if it could be found the military record of "FLORIO Michele classe 1845 circa" in these sources:

Ufficio di leva di Potenza, Liste di leva (1842-1943);
Distretto militare di Potenza, Ruoli matricolari (1840-1926)
to this email here: http://archiviodistatopotenza.benicultu ... ispondenza

and to add any helpful infos that you have, helpful to locate Michele...
best regards,
suanj

[stfrancis]

thanks, maybe worth a try - will let you know...

[stfrancis]

When Catherina Urga-Florio remarried to Focarile, they had a son Joseph Focarile in NYC, born 1886, on his birth document it mentions Focarile (Father) is from Sala Consilina , it also mentions Urga (Mother) is from Sala Consilina...

I knew Focarile was from Sala. Im wondering if they just copied his information to her (since ive seen this done many times...). If she is from Sala, is there a way to access her birth in Sala, or first Marriage to Florio...? (i noticed Family Search records are not complete, and some are illegible)

(Joseph's birth mentions she is 35 years old (born 1861), but all other documents mention she was prob born 1845-1849...)

[suanj]

When Catherina Urga-Florio remarried to Focarile, they had a son Joseph Focarile in NYC, born 1886, on his birth document it mentions Focarile (Father) is from Sala Consilina , it also mentions Urga (Mother) is from Sala Consilina...

I knew Focarile was from Sala. Im wondering if they just copied his information to her (since ive seen this done many times...). If she is from Sala, is there a way to access her birth in Sala, or first Marriage to Florio...? (i noticed Family Search records are not complete, and some are illegible)

(Joseph's birth mentions she is 35 years old (born 1861), but all other documents mention she was prob born 1845-1849...)

Found!
Maria Caterina GORGA born in Sala Consilina on 29 Apr 1845(!!) #82 daughter of Vincenzo Gorga 46 old, shoemaker, and Teresa Pietropaolo(? unreadable) 40 old

click to enlarge- first page http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0
suanj