Parent-Grandparent-Great Grandparent Question regarding Jure Sanguninis

[cfb]

Pretty sure I am out but just need to check:

-Great Grandfather and Great Grandmother Born in Sicily (immigrated to US separately in 1892, Married in NY 1898)
-Grandfather born in NY in 1905
-Grandfather's Petitions for Naturalization filed in New York City in 1928
-Farther Born in 1936
-I was born in 196X

So, does the 1928 naturalization disqualify me?

Thanks!

[mler]

If your grandfather was born in the US, he would not naturalize; he was a US citizen jus soli.

If your great grandfather was the one who naturalized sometime after 1928, it did not affect his US-born son.

My guess is you qualify.

[cfb]

Now I am even more confused. Mt great grandfather was born in 1871 in Italy and immgrated in 1893. His son was born in NY in 1905 (at least I am sure he was, but now I look at the petition i see "Italy" on the top and wonder what that measn). Here is his Petition for Naturalization. If he was born on US soil why would he get this? MAybe he was born in Italy and he never told anyone?

[mler]

I am assuming that you have confirmed this petition is his. If he was born on US soil, he would not get this.

Check with NARA, referencing this petition since you have the petition number. You want to know if he ever actually naturalized. There are a number of possibilities:

1. He was born in NY but because his father was Italian, he thought he was Italian too. In that case, he may have applied but would not have completed the naturalization.

2. His father married and had a child in Italy, and after the child's birth in 1905, both mother and child entered the US. In this case, the child was not born with US citizenship and would have had to naturalize to obtain it.

There are other possible scenarios, but they are not very likely.

Several thoughts:

If your great grandparents were married in the US, possibility 2 is less likely (although a possibility if the child was born during a family trip to Italy).

The key is really your grandfather's birth certificate. If you locate a US birth certificate, you really can ignore the petition since he had US citizenship from birth.

Also, keep in mind that, if your grandmother was Italian, you could possibly use her line as an alternative. It would, however, be a 1948 case.

[cfb]

Wow, I am finding out some good stuff. People who did the tree before me screwed things up. It looks like based on the 1920 census tract below that my great grandparents immigrated in 1895 but did not get naturalized until 1912. Since my grandfather was born in 1905 his naturalization petition now makes sense since he was born to Italian parents.

My grandfather had my father after he was natuaralized in 1936.

So now what does this me for my Jure Sanguninis?

[mler]

No, it does not make sense. If he was born in the US, he would have been a citizen of the US from birth.

The 1912 naturalization may be an issue. If your great grandfather naturalized before June 14, 1912 (I believe that is the date the law was enacted), it ended Italian citizenship for the entire family. If after that date, any US-born children born before he naturalized, retained both US and Italian citizenship.

Date of naturalization here is critical as is the location of your grandfather's birth.

[mler]

For a US born child, the citizenship of the parent does not determine citizenship. If you are born in the US, you ARE a US citizen--no need to naturalize. That's why where your grandfather was born is critical.

[cfb]

Ha, this is fun and weird.

The address of the family on the 1910 census is 58 First Avenue, NY.
The address of the family on the 1920 census is 78 First Avenue, NY.
The Petition address in 1928 is 151 First Avenue and the dates all match for him being born in 1905.

I know they lived on 151 First Avenue because my Great Grandfather and Grandfather had a Barber shop there and lived above it.

Is it a possibility that they could have went back to Italy for a while and had him there?

So I guess it all comes down to finding my grandfather's birth certificate and finding my great grandfathers naturalization.

[mler]

Yes, they could have returned to Italy, but if they did and your gf was born there, and if he completed a naturalization before your dad was born, that line won't work. But a petition is not a guarantee naturalization took place.

Your ggf's naturalization in 1912 is also a problem if it occurred before June 14, 1912.

So, if you are disqualified either because your gf completed a naturalization before his son was born or if your ggf naturalized too early in 1912, don't give up. You should also consider the female line, which may create a 1948 issue but still work.

[cfb]

Here is the clip from the 1910 census where my GGF says he is naturalized. I think he might have been fibbing to the census...




So if my GF was naturalized before my father was born am I out of luck, besides the possibility of my maternal line?

[mler]

Yes, but unless you find proof of actual naturalization, don't assume he did. Also, do check on your ggf's dates. There are several issues here.

First, if he naturalized before June 14, 1912, it's over.

But if your gf was born in 1905 in Italy, a 1912 naturalization by his father would have naturalized him as well so he would have not need to naturalize as an adult. Don't trust the census. They are often inaccurate.