Jure sanguinis eligibility questions

[cgrasso10]

Hi all,
I would like to know my elidgbility for birthright citizenship but I'm confused about 1 thing. Paternal & Maternal great grandfathers were both born in Italy. My Paternal great grandfather did a declaration of Intent in 1924 and my granfather was born in 1922 so he renounced citizenship to all his descendants. My Maternal great grandfather arrived from Italy in 1908 and was born in 1885, I wasn't able to find Naturalazation records for him through ancestry.com(I did find it for my Paternal Greatgrandfater through the same site). The 1920 Federal Census still listed my Maternal greatgrandfather as an Alien. My Maternal grandather was born in 1916 in the U.S and my mother was born in 1947, I was born in 1969. My confusion is with the 1948 rule. Am I elidgible for birthright citizenship since my mother was born in 1947? I was born 1969 so she was able pass the italian citizenship to me right? No one in my Maternal line did a declaration of intent/Naturalization in the US but were citizens here by birth. I don't know where in Italy he was born, where is the best place to find that? There is no record of him at the Ellis Island passenger manifests, I only know that his arrival is listed on a census as 1908. Also, why do I need a petition for naturalization/declaration of intention from my ancestor if that effectively disqualifies me from birthright citizenship? This is a document that the Italian Embassy requires to apply. I have been to this website already but I'm still unsure: http://www.myitaliancitizenship.com/?co ... ation.html Any help appreciated.

Thank you,

Chris

[mler]

Correction: your paternal great grandfather lost citizenship (renunciation is something entirely different) when he naturalized only for his minor children BORN IN ITALY, and children born in the US AFTER HE NATURALIZED. So you may have a path through this line.

The maternal line is also ok. Since your mother was born to an Italian male, the 1948 issue does not apply.

Check both lines to see which is easier to document. My guess is you will do better with the line that has an actual naturalization. If the naturalization occurred AFTER your US-born ancestor was born, it is an easy case.

BTW, naturalization documents do not automatically “disqualify”. They simply establish the date Italian citizenship ended.

[cgrasso10]

Is Declaration of Intention the same as Petition for Naturalization? My paternal line is: Father-Mother-Great Grandfather, my grandfather came from Italy in 1920, grandmother born in 1922 and the Certificate of Naturalization in 1923(no Declaration of Intention. Father-Grandfather-Great Grandfather, he came over in 1911 from Brazil but was born in Regulbuto, Italy(I have the birth record for him), grandfather born in 1922 and my Great Grandfather did a Declaration of Intention in 1924. The wording on this one which you probably already know is: It is my bona fide intention to renounce forever all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince,potentate,state,or sovereignty, and particularly to Victor Emanuel III, King of Italy.


The wording on the Declaration of Intent is strong, would I be better off pursuing the the line where there is only a Certificate of Naturalization? Or does it matter?

Thank you,
Chris

[mler]

The Declaration off Intent is a preliminary naturalization document followed by the Petition and, ultimately, the oath. The Oath is taken on the day of actual naturalization. Despite the wording, there were only two ways to lose citizenship prior to 1992—renunciation at a consulate or actual naturalization. Preliminary papers meant nothing in terms of Italian citizenship.

I should point out that if any of your ancestors resided in Brazil before emigrating to the US, Brazilian records would also be required because the consulate would want to determine if naturalization took place there, so if you can avoid that additional step, it would be helpful.

Keep in mind that if there is a Certificate of Naturalization, there is also a Declaration and a Petition. Only the date on the Certificate counts.

[cgrasso10]

So if in the case of one of my Great Grandfathers, he has a Certificate of Naturalization in 1923,grandmother born in 1922 (the one that did not come from Brazil), so is that actual naturalization and he lost his citizenship and I can't pursue that line? Sorry for all the questions, I just want to be sure because I have to spend money to get these documents. Thanks for all your help.

Chris

[mler]

If your gm was born in 1922 in the US, and her father naturalized in 1923, his naturalization had no effect on her Italian citizenship. This would be a perfect line to follow assuming her child was not born before 1948.

[cgrasso10]

My dad was born in 1945 so that's out. Last question: So if I go through my this line Father-Grandfather- Great Grandfather it doesn't matter if he was born before 1948 right? I just have to go through an extra step to prove he wasn't naturalized in Brazil? Thanks!

[mler]

Yes, but what about your mother’s line? Great-grandfather, grandfather, mother, you (or was this the Brazil line)?

[cgrasso10]

No that wasn't the one from Brazil that's Great Grandfather-Grandfather-father. My maternal Great Grandfather came over in 1908 but the records have been inconsistent-one record has him listed as being born in Argentina, all I've established is he was still listed in a census record in 1940 as an alien and born in Italy-he died in 1950. My mother was born in 1947.

[mler]

Then ggf, gf, m is a possibility. You will need to determine if he was indeed born in Argentina or Italy.

You really have several viable lines. Now you need to do some research to find the one that will be the least problematic.

If you can post some specifics, perhaps we can help.

By specifics, I mean list each of the four lines beginning with the original Italian, birth dates, location of birth, naturalization information and dates.

[Smurphy1]

I was just going to add in response to your OP and your maternal line and where that ancestor was born in Italy. I have a similar timeline. The ancestor was born in 1880, came in 1907. I was able to find his place of birth on the 'old man's' WWII registration card. It was a card all men were required to fill out, even though they weren't the right age to fight. It asked for his place of birth and he hand-wrote it on there his day of birth and where he was born in Italy.

[cgrasso10]

I can't find any record of my Mothers' grandfather in Italy through this site:www.antenati.san.beniculturali.it/galle ... arch]=name nor can I find records in Argentina. I was able to find my dads grandfathers birth record in Regulbuto, Italy born on Jun 21st,1879. He arrived in New York City on June 5, 1911 on the MS Voltaire from Santos (port of São Paulo) Brazil. He divorced and remarried my great grandmother here. I know she was also born in Italy but I can't find any record of her from Ellis Island or Ancestry.com which I found strange because the records for my GGF are quite complete. My GF was born on Aug 30th 1921, I'm assuming he married my Great Grandmother before he was born-Declaration of Intent is dated June 12,1924, I couldn't find certificate of naturalization. My dad was born Jul 18th,1944. I think this one would be the least problematic path but like you said I do need to do more research.

Thanks,
Chris

[mler]

That is certainly a viable option; however, it is complicated by two issues—the time in Brazil and the divorce and remarriage. Neither of these factors are disqualifiers, but they will complicate your record search. Evaluate all your options, and select the one that is least problematic.