How to find birth records

[terrimusto]

Angela,

"Her parents were Carminantonio Noschese, 32yo, colono (farmer), and Brigida Roberto, daughter of deceased Felice, legitimate wife of Carminantonio Noschese. She was a contadina (farmer) aged 36. Yes, you are correct, she was a twin (gemello)."

Are you saying that Brigida was the daughter of Felice, the dead wife of Carminantonio? WOW! If that's the case, does the record say who Brigida's father may have been? And now I need to figure out what happened to Angela.

You have been so helpful. I am very, very grateful!

T

[AngelaGrace56]

Angela,

"Her parents were Carminantonio Noschese, 32yo, colono (farmer), and Brigida Roberto, daughter of deceased Felice, legitimate wife of Carminantonio Noschese. She was a contadina (farmer) aged 36. Yes, you are correct, she was a twin (gemello)."

Are you saying that Brigida was the daughter of Felice, the dead wife of Carminantonio? WOW! If that's the case, does the record say who Brigida's father may have been? And now I need to figure out what happened to Angela.

You have been so helpful. I am very, very grateful!

T

This is what I am reading:

Genoeffa's Parents are: Carminantonio Noschese (32 yo) and Brigida Roberto who is very much alive and of age 36..

Brigida Roberto's father was (fu) the deceased Felice (Roberto)

Unfortunately it doesn't give Carminantonio Noschese's father's name.

Hope this helps to clarify for you. Happy to help.

Angela

[terrimusto]

Great! thanks. I really misread that. Oops.

[terrimusto]

I really hate to keep bothering you but, of course, I've more questions.

Do the Italian birth records contain specific information. By that I mean is there a translation somewhere of a standard record that would indicate what kind of information is likely to be included? There appears to be a lot written in each individual record.

Second, if one were using the "search by name" feature, does that search cover the entire database or only the section currently open. I keep getting no result found and wonder if I'm doing something wrong.

Please let me know if I'm overstepping my welcome on this topic.

And thank you again.

[AngelaGrace56]

I really hate to keep bothering you but, of course, I've more questions.

Do the Italian birth records contain specific information. By that I mean is there a translation somewhere of a standard record that would indicate what kind of information is likely to be included? There appears to be a lot written in each individual record.

Second, if one were using the "search by name" feature, does that search cover the entire database or only the section currently open. I keep getting no result found and wonder if I'm doing something wrong.

Please let me know if I'm overstepping my welcome on this topic.

And thank you again.

It's fine to keep asking questions. It keeps us sharp as well. You can also search here on the forum. There is so much fantastic information here.

You might find this helpful: https://cfhg.byu.edu/Downloads/Italian_ ... efault.htm It will have examples of Civil Records with translations.

Re the "search by name". Are you meaning the Antenati Site? Some of the records have been indexed and some haven't. Maybe your records haven't been? The Province of Salerno has only recently been uploaded onto the site so maybe they haven't, or only some towns have?

Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

I've just checked and it looks like the Birth Records 1809-1865 for the province of Salerno have been indexed. Who are you looking for - name, parents names, year, town. I could take a look later.

Angela

[mmogno]

Take a look here:
http://archiviodistatosalerno.benicultu ... n/256/leva

[terrimusto]

Angela,

Regarding the search feature of the Ancestors Web Site, I found my GM and you kindly directed me to the actual PDF of her birth record. I've been trying to search for others based on some of the information in that record and not only do I come up empty handed on other names, the search feature doesn't even give me the record I know to be there. Clearly I do not understand something about how it works.

I am looking for information on my GGM and GGF in a effort to try to solve a most delicious puzzle - well to me anyway. A number of years ago I queried ItalianGenealogy.com. I have this puzzle and, at that time with very little information, was asking for help from a different standpoint and detailed it in those posts. I don't know if you can search for any other posts by me but if you're interested in my story, please feel free to look but please don't feel obligated. I will soldier on.

To the person, mmogno, who sent me the other link, I am as of yet unable to figure out how to search it but will keep trying.

This is a great site and I really appreciate all the help offered.

[AngelaGrace56]

Hi there Terrimusto

I don't believe that 1883 Birth Record entry that you found of your grandmother, and which I located and translated for you, is the correct one. I remember at the time you seemed surprised that she was a twin, and also that she was born in 1883? After rereading what you have written here I've taken a look at the 1888 records and have found the following:

Birth Record No 92: Genoeffa Noschese

Giffoni Sei Casali: 5 July 1888
Carminantonio Noschese, 40 yo, industriante, living this town, reported that at 10 .05 pm, on 4 July 1888, in the house in Prepezzano, no number, from Brigida Roberto, 41 yo, daughter of Felice (Roberto), legitimate wife (of Carminantonio Noschese), was born a baby girl who he prsented and named Genoeffa.

(Father: Carminantonio Noschese, 40 yo, industriante, living in this town.
Mother: Brigida Roberto, 41 yo, daughter of Felice (Roberto). She was the legitimate wife of Carminantonio Noschese.
The baby, Genoeffa Noschese, was born on 4 July 1888 at 10.05 pm.)

http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... 4.jpg.html


What I believe you need to do first, before you can go back any further is to establish that this 1888 birth record is in fact your Genoeffa Noschese, and that your great grand parents are in fact Carminantonio Noschese and Brigida Roberto. Do you have documentation, e.g. A marrige record for your Genoeffa Noschese which has her parents named?

If you are absolutely sure then look for the marriage record of Carminantonio Noschese and Brigida Roberto, which will be some time before 1883 when their twin babies were born. Bear in mind though, that because both Brigida and Carminantonio were older in years when they had these two Genoeffa's, they may have been married many years before 1883, and had other children before the twins were born. (It doesn't look like Carminantonio was too sure of his age.) (The Genoeffa born in 1883 must have died.)

Once you have located their marriage record, it will give you lots of information about who each of their respective parents were.

Then, just keep going back systematically; look for the bride and grooms birth records, and then each of their respective parents marriage records, and so on.... Use the indices at the back of each year book – some may be at the front. It's the best way to do it. Certainly using the "search" feature on the antenati site can be really helpful, but it can also send you off-track. There could be lots of Genoeffa Noschese's born within a close time frame, even within the same year, and unless you actually know who the parents were, you can't be sure that you have the correct one.

I'm sorry I don't have time to read through all your posts today, but I do always love a good mystery – yes I can search your posts here on IG – although, I think that if you would like some help with this, it would be more appropriate for you to do a precis of the information, with sources, that you have, and post them here.

Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

I did have a quick look through your previous threads and saw that a Genoeffa had travelled to the states with her mother Brigida, and that you mentioned the names of Genoeffa's sybings. For various reasons, I'm still not completely convinced – would really like to see documention which includes the names of Genoeffa's parents, other than the birth record here. However, I did take a little look through some records and have found the following:

Marriage Record No 20: Carminantonio Noschese and Brigida Roberto

Giffoni Sei Casali: 22 June 1881

Groom: Carminantonio Noschese, widower, 30 yo, colono, born in San Cipriano, residing this town, son of the deceased Pasquale Noschese, and the Rosa Galdi, residing this town.

Bride: Brigida Roberto, widow, 34 yo, contadina, born and residing this town, daughter of the deceased Felice (Roberto) and of Anna Carraturo, residing this town.

http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... 3.jpg.html

I found two sons born to Carminantonio and Brigida, both named Pasquale, so maybe the first one died. I didn't find any evidence of sisters Florentina, Giuseppina, Benedetta or Maria, which you have mentioned in a previous thread, born to this couple. As both Carminantonio and Brigida were both widowed when they married, these children may have been half syblings of Genoeffa, born from Carminantonio and Brigida's previous marriages??????


1882 Birth Record No 30: Pasquale Noschese, son of Carminantonio Noschese and Brigida Roberto:
http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0

1885 Birth No 79: Pasqualantonio Noschese, son of Carminantonio Noschese e Brigida Roberto who marries 14 February 1921 Clodilda Gliorio
http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0

Carminantonio Noschese's first wife was Maria Grazia d'Amato. They married in 1875. Here is their marriage record:
http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0


Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

1878 Birth Maria Giuseppa Noschese of Carminantonio Noschese e Maria Grazia d'Amato: http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... 7.jpg.html

1876 births were missing so this couple may have had a child that year?

Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

1865 Marriage Record No 21: Giovanni Alfonso Bisogni e Brigida Roberto

Giffoni Sei Casali: 19 October 1865

Church Marriage 19 October 1865, San Nicola di Bari in Prepezzano

Groom: Giovanni Alfonso Bisogni, never married, 31 yo, born and living this town, landowner, son of deceased Giuseppe Bisogni and Carmina d'Amato, living with her son

Bride: Brigida Roberto, never married, 19 yo, born and living this town, daughter of deceased Felice Roberto, landowner, and Anna Carraturo, living in this town with her daughter......


http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... 7.jpg.html


So hopefully the above marriage record, and previous records I have posted here help to solve some mysteries for you. Unfortunately, some of the birth records are missing so I couldn't look for the 1874 birth record of Fiorentina Bisogni (Bisgona was a misspelling of the surname). I am understanding that Fiorentina Bisogni was Brigida Roberto's daughter from this first marriage here, and the half sister of your grandmother.

You've got some fantastic records online. Use the indices and carefully work backwards. We are always here for backup and happy to help with the translations.

Best to you.

Angela

[mmenke]

Seeking a birth record for Giovanni Battista Garibaldi, born about 1873 in the Chiavari area. He is listed in Italians to America Index, 1855-1900, as arriving in New York 7 July 1897 from Genoa, age 24, last residence Chiavari. His 1949 death certificate gives his birthday as 29 Feb. 1873, his father's first name as John and his mother's name as Maria Raffo. His 1903 Manhattan NY marriage record gives his father's name as Antonio and his mother's name as Maria C. Raffo. Can you please help me locate a birth record for him? More generally, does anyone know if someone has organized the genealogy for Garibaldis from the Chiavari area? And are there any emigrant databases for the Chiavari area? Many thanks,
Michael Menke, mmenke41@gmail.com

[AngelaGrace56]

Seeking a birth record for Giovanni Battista Garibaldi, born about 1873 in the Chiavari area. He is listed in Italians to America Index, 1855-1900, as arriving in New York 7 July 1897 from Genoa, age 24, last residence Chiavari. His 1949 death certificate gives his birthday as 29 Feb. 1873, his father's first name as John and his mother's name as Maria Raffo. His 1903 Manhattan NY marriage record gives his father's name as Antonio and his mother's name as Maria C. Raffo. Can you please help me locate a birth record for him? More generally, does anyone know if someone has organized the genealogy for Garibaldis from the Chiavari area? And are there any emigrant databases for the Chiavari area? Many thanks,
Michael Menke, mmenke41@gmail.com

Welcome to the forum! I've only just noticed this post now and was going to suggest that you start up a separate thread, which I see that you have done. I'll bump it for you.

Related thread here: https://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/ ... 58#p278758

Hopefully someone will be able to help you there.

Angela

[terrimusto]

Looking at this index for 1888 births in Salerno
http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0

It says that in Volume 2, record number 14, I should find a birth record for a Guiseppa Romano. Recognizing that I can be very thick at times, I do not seem to be able to locate Volume 2. Any help would be appreciated.