SPADAFORA, Grumento Nova, Potenza, Basilicata, Italy

[Breezing23]

I am getting closer to getting the records translated ill see how i go

[AngelaGrace56]

One final favour, I have my Nonnos (Isidoro spadaforas) birth certificate which states "no father" but i dont have a birth record of him which might give me a little bit of insight also, for example who was present when he was born etc you never know

If someone could find that for me i will be forever greatful!! honestly the closer i get to this mystery even if i never solve it it will always interest me

Grazie!

1. Are you able to post the birth certificate that you have for your Nonno (Isidoro Spadafora). I'd like to take a look at it.

2. There are no "Birth Records" on line post 1910. You would need to write to Grumento Nova and ask them for the Birth Act.

I am getting closer to getting the records translated ill see how i go

If you need any help with that do use the Translation Forum here on IG and we can help.

I have located Pasquale Spadafora's Death Record. I know that he is not a blood relative but I thought you might be interested. He died in 1926.

Death Act No 23: Pasquale Spadafora

Saponara di Grumento: 30 May 1926

Before the official appeared Vincenzo Laveglia, 45 yo, agricoltore, and Vincenzo Dambrosio, 73 yo, barbiere (barber), both living this town. They reported that at the hour 2.20 pm, yesterday (29 May 1926), in the house in Via Corso Vittorio Emanuele, No 9, died Pasquale Spadafora, 48 yo, pastore (shepherd), who resided in this town when living. He was born in this town, the son of deceased Paolo Spadafora, a calzolaio (cobbler), and the deceased Maria Michele Latronico, a contadina (farmer), who had both lived in this town when living. He was the husband of (living) Rosolia Bafunno.

Corso Vittorio Emanuele: https://www.tuttocitta.it/mappa/grument ... o-emanuele

Angela

[Tessa78]

yes both of you are amazing!.. I love learning about my past now, all thanks to a work friend who does this as a hobby but of course his family history has nothing to do with italy (DANG!)

One final favour, I have my Nonnos (Isidoro spadaforas) birth certificate which states "no father" but i dont have a birth record of him which might give me a little bit of insight also, for example who was present when he was born etc you never know

If someone could find that for me i will be forever greatful!! honestly the closer i get to this mystery even if i never solve it it will always interest me

Grazie!

Just an FYI - on Italian birth acts there are listed "witnesses" - however, these witnesses were not present at the birth, but rather they witnessed the recording of the birth act at the town hall when the child was declared and presented to the official because they happened to be at the town hall.

As Angela mentioned - it would be helpful to see this birth certificate that you mentioned for Isidoro.
IF his birth certificate states "no father" - then why do you say that he was born with the surname "Spadafora" in your initial posting? If mother was named, but not the father, then Isidoro would have been given HER name - Bafunno.
Something does not make sense here... hopefully, seeing the birth certificate that you have will shed some light.

T.

[AngelaGrace56]

yes both of you are amazing!.. I love learning about my past now, all thanks to a work friend who does this as a hobby but of course his family history has nothing to do with italy (DANG!)

One final favour, I have my Nonnos (Isidoro spadaforas) birth certificate which states "no father" but i dont have a birth record of him which might give me a little bit of insight also, for example who was present when he was born etc you never know

If someone could find that for me i will be forever greatful!! honestly the closer i get to this mystery even if i never solve it it will always interest me

Grazie!

Something does not make sense here... hopefully, seeing the birth certificate that you have will shed some light.

T.

Yes, my sentiments also, T. There is obviously something amiss.

Angela

[mjclayton1]

Angela and T-

Yeah, I was curious about the birth certificate comment myself. If Breezing23 has it, why ask for the Birth Record (Atti di Nascita)? Also, I agree with Angela that there are no records for Potenza, post-1910. Because I've put in the time and effort to index Saponara di Grumento/Grumento Nova in the past couple of years (just like I did for Capannori and Gallicano, Lucca), I actually was able to quickly go thru the motions of looking for a Birth Record for Isidoro for the years noted/requested (1890-1905) and, of course, nothing was found for him. Not sure why there would be anything 4 years before the couple was married anyways?!

It's sort of ironic that that Breezing23's "non-blood" relatives/ancestors are possibly related to my wife. I would need to do more research on the Spadafora's to confirm (or disprove). I haven't "branched out" that much (and going that far back) on that particular line, but maybe I'll have to look into that angle sooner than later...

Mark

[AngelaGrace56]

Hi Mark

Like you, I also have a particular interest in Grumento Nova and have done a lot of research in the town in the past. (One of my parents was born there and the other spent some of their childhood there. Three of my grandparents were born there.) One thing that intrigues me is that I don't recall one Isidoro born there. Like you, I've also been indexing my two towns and have completed the marriage records for two towns, and am chipping away at the deaths. Can you check your indexing to see whether the given name Isidoro appears? Maybe it's a clue for us - that the father wasn't from Grumento Nova???? Or maybe it means nothing at all. (I'd say that if the father was a local, usually the rest of the town would've known who the father was.)

(Sorry, I can't help you with Spadafora. My dad had a friend by the name of ? Spadafora, and my dad, who loved to tease and play on words, always use to joke about the meaning of the name, so I know the name well, but it is nowhere in my history, so far. Spadafora's only appear on some of my civil records as witnesses.)

Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

Angela and T-

Yeah, I was curious about the birth certificate comment myself. If Breezing23 has it, why ask for the Birth Record (Atti di Nascita)? Also, I agree with Angela that there are no records for Potenza, post-1910. Because I've put in the time and effort to index Saponara di Grumento/Grumento Nova in the past couple of years (just like I did for Capannori and Gallicano, Lucca), I actually was able to quickly go thru the motions of looking for a Birth Record for Isidoro for the years noted/requested (1890-1905) and, of course, nothing was found for him. Not sure why there would be anything 4 years before the couple was married anyways?!

It's sort of ironic that that Breezing23's "non-blood" relatives/ancestors are possibly related to my wife. I would need to do more research on the Spadafora's to confirm (or disprove). I haven't "branched out" that much (and going that far back) on that particular line, but maybe I'll have to look into that angle sooner than later...

Mark

Mark, I just want to correct something you have written here. I didn't say "that there are no records for Potenza, post 1910" - what I said was that there were no "Birth" Records online, post 1910" referring to Grumento Nova.

There are actually "Death" Records covering the years 1912-1938 inclusive on Ancestry. (Well there use to be, I haven't checked lately, so I should image they are still there? I don't have a subscription to Ancestry.)

I've written you a message in my previous post here, incase you miss it.

Angela

[mjclayton1]

Hi, Angela-

Good point on the oddball name (for the town). I checked the Birth indices from 1866 - 1890 (skipping 1869-1872, which are missing) and you're correct - no name of Isidoro. Closest I saw was an "Isabella" (Di Biase). Makes you wonder...

Thanks for the correction on my 1866-1910 comment. Sloppy (on my part). I'm beat right now, so I'll be hitting the sack soon, but will check in again as time permits...

Mark

[AngelaGrace56]

Hi, Angela-

Good point on the oddball name (for the town). I checked the Birth indices from 1866 - 1890 (skipping 1869-1872, which are missing) and you're correct - no name of Isidoro. Closest I saw was an "Isabella" (Di Biase). Makes you wonder...

Thanks for the correction on my 1866-1910 comment. Sloppy (on my part). I'm beat right now, so I'll be hitting the sack soon, but will check in again as time permits...

Mark

Thanks for checking that out. I knew I hadn't come across the name Isidoro before in the Grumento Nova records. I don't think I've seen the name in Sarconi either actually. I see the same given names repeated over and over in both towns - Giuseppe, Michelangelo, Nicola, Santo etc etc, but no Isidoro. I would've remembered because of a nun who taught one of my older syblings - Sister Isidore (she was somewhat eccentric).

The other thing I was going to mention is that I was understanding that Breezing23 was estimating Pasquale and Rosolia Bafunno's births to be circa (1890-1905), not Isidoro? I was thinking that maybe Isidoro was born circa 1920. Anyways, the Birth Certificate should give that information.

Get some rest.

Angela

[mjclayton1]

Hi Angela. Oy, I’m such a dumb-dumb sometimes. I will double check on the Birth records for Pasquale and Rosalia when I have a chance.

Mark

[AngelaGrace56]

No need Mark. I have already found and posted Rosolia Bafunno's 1893 birth record and you have posted Pasquale's 1877 birth record. There was a sixteen year age gap.

Angela

[mjclayton1]

Lol. Although I do have a lot going on right now, maybe M I should try re-reading the full string before I type and post!!!

Thanks.

[Breezing23]

I will have isidoros birth record with me soon! By this coming week so we can all have a look to see why these things have happened, I found out that he never had a birth certificate but does have his birth record as my brother used it to get duel citizenship so I’m glad it is at my Nonna somewhere!

Will keep you all updated

[AngelaGrace56]

Lol. Although I do have a lot going on right now, maybe M I should try re-reading the full string before I type and post!!!

Thanks.

Angela

I will have isidoros birth record with me soon! By this coming week so we can all have a look to see why these things have happened, I found out that he never had a birth certificate but does have his birth record as my brother used it to get duel citizenship so I’m glad it is at my Nonna somewhere!

Will keep you all updated

That will be really helpful, Breezing23. I look forward to seeing it. Hopefully we can solve some of the puzzle.

Angela

[Breezing23]

https://ibb.co/de5YtU
Here it is! My brother finally got a hold of it, it’s fully in Italian and have no idea what it says! I’m prettt excited to have it though