Use of SS-5 and US military records as corroborating evidence

[qualdom]

Would the Italian government consider certified copies of original SS-5 applications and US military records as corroborating evidence (to support a one and the same claim due to surname spelling discrepancies)? My family is opposed to the amendment of US records, and I want to respect their concerns.

[afecad]

Would the Italian government consider certified copies of original SS-5 applications and US military records as corroborating evidence (to support a one and the same claim due to surname spelling discrepancies)? My family is opposed to the amendment of US records, and I want to respect their concerns.

As previously noted, I have a similar issue and my Italian lawyer noted that this would be of no use in Italy to prove the spelling issue. I do know that the lawyer in PA who is filing the petition with the local courts with respect to amending a birth certificate, is using military records from my Grandfather among other documents I have provided, so it appears US Military Service records have some possible value with that respect.

[qualdom]

Would the Italian government consider certified copies of original SS-5 applications and US military records as corroborating evidence (to support a one and the same claim due to surname spelling discrepancies)? My family is opposed to the amendment of US records, and I want to respect their concerns.

As previously noted, I have a similar issue and my Italian lawyer noted that this would be of no use in Italy to prove the spelling issue. I do know that the lawyer in PA who is filing the petition with the local courts with respect to amending a birth certificate, is using military records from my Grandfather among other documents I have provided, so it appears US Military Service records have some possible value with that respect.

That's disappointing to hear but I assumed that would be the case.

[afecad]

That's disappointing to hear but I assumed that would be the case.

I think it comes down the the Birth Certificate, everything in my case focused on that. Even my Great-Grandmother's first name on my Grandfather's Long Form Birth Certificate is the Americanized version or alternate of her birth name in Italy. It was suggested to update that as well to match her birth name.

So it appears continuity from her Italian birth record to my Grandfather's birth and his name were critical, so much so I have spent hours and additional $$ to get it corrected.

My Grandfather still has one surviving sibling, though I'm not in contact with my Great-Aunt, as well my Mother and all of his children are still living, I did not seek approval from them to do this. My Mother and a couple of her siblings are aware of the error that needs corrected but it was up to me to get it corrected and it sounds like in your case the objection to do so is purely a family matter, not something the courts require. Maybe you can sell your case to your family to get more support?

[qualdom]

That's disappointing to hear but I assumed that would be the case.

I think it comes down the the Birth Certificate, everything in my case focused on that. Even my Great-Grandmother's first name on my Grandfather's Long Form Birth Certificate is the Americanized version or alternate of her birth name in Italy. It was suggested to update that as well to match her birth name.

So it appears continuity from her Italian birth record to my Grandfather's birth and his name were critical, so much so I have spent hours and additional $$ to get it corrected.

My Grandfather still has one surviving sibling, though I'm not in contact with my Great-Aunt, as well my Mother and all of his children are still living, I did not seek approval from them to do this. My Mother and a couple of her siblings are aware of the error that needs corrected but it was up to me to get it corrected and it sounds like in your case the objection to do so is purely a family matter, not something the courts require. Maybe you can sell your case to your family to get more support?

Yes, I suppose they want all names and dates of birth to match up to leave no doubt that the applicant is truly related to the Italian-born ancestor.

From my family's perspective, the surname spelling that has been used in the US is the only legitimate one. It will be a hard sell.

I've dealt with this situation previously as my spouse is from a European country and we pursued dual citizenship for our daughter. An absurd situation arose as that country always puts the surname first on all vital records. They wanted me to have my PA b/c amended to put my surname first. Well, I said that was going to happen. Fortunately, the attorney negotiated a compromise by having the translator reverse my name order in the translation.

[afecad]

Yes, I suppose they want all names and dates of birth to match up to leave no doubt that the applicant is truly related to the Italian-born ancestor.

From my family's perspective, the surname spelling that has been used in the US is the only legitimate one. It will be a hard sell.

I've dealt with this situation previously as my spouse is from a European country and we pursued dual citizenship for our daughter. An absurd situation arose as that country always puts the surname first on all vital records. They wanted me to have my PA b/c amended to put my surname first. Well, I said that was going to happen. Fortunately, the attorney negotiated a compromise by having the translator reverse my name order in the translation.

Yes for me, working with ICA and the PA Lawyer they recommended they have specifically given me clear instructions on the documentation and it all starts with the Certificato di nascita and descends from there. In my case my Great Grandmother's maiden birth surname was "Nestico", a few documents had "Nistico", they requested this to be corrected. Appears her PA Death Certificate, which they used her Americanized first name, was not an issue as I told it is acceptable.

You are correct, it's all about connecting the dots on whether or not you are related.

Cases like yours are common, I know of several people who's family shortened the name or changed it enough that it was drastically different and not an alternate spelling. In one case I was told the Grandfather thought his name was too "Italian" and it was handicapping him in business, so he dropped half of the name and it ended up sounding more German. 2 generations later, that was the family name, can see the amount of paperwork plus like you said, family views.

[qualdom]

Yes, I suppose they want all names and dates of birth to match up to leave no doubt that the applicant is truly related to the Italian-born ancestor.

From my family's perspective, the surname spelling that has been used in the US is the only legitimate one. It will be a hard sell.

I've dealt with this situation previously as my spouse is from a European country and we pursued dual citizenship for our daughter. An absurd situation arose as that country always puts the surname first on all vital records. They wanted me to have my PA b/c amended to put my surname first. Well, I said that was going to happen. Fortunately, the attorney negotiated a compromise by having the translator reverse my name order in the translation.

Yes for me, working with ICA and the PA Lawyer they recommended they have specifically given me clear instructions on the documentation and it all starts with the Certificato di nascita and descends from there. In my case my Great Grandmother's maiden birth surname was "Nestico", a few documents had "Nistico", they requested this to be corrected. Appears her PA Death Certificate, which they used her Americanized first name, was not an issue as I told it is acceptable.

You are correct, it's all about connecting the dots on whether or not you are related.

Cases like yours are common, I know of several people who's family shortened the name or changed it enough that it was drastically different and not an alternate spelling. In one case I was told the Grandfather thought his name was too "Italian" and it was handicapping him in business, so he dropped half of the name and it ended up sounding more German. 2 generations later, that was the family name, can see the amount of paperwork plus like you said, family views.

My Italian-born GGF's b/c has his mother's surname listed as Nistico. However, his mother's own B/C is written as Nestico. So it appears both spellings were used in Italy as well.

[qualdom]

Based on my previous experience with dual citizenship, I can say that a lot of these demands for amendments come from the attorneys. They want to get paid while putting in a minimal amount of effort. Zero discrepancies ensure that the case will be approved and not get kicked back.

[afecad]

My Italian-born GGF's b/c has his mother's surname listed as Nistico. However, his mother's own B/C is written as Nestico. So it appears both spellings were used in Italy as well.

Yes there is two versions in Italy, this was copied from a site:

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NESTICO' | NISTICO'
Both surnames are typically Calabrian, Nesticó is specific to Catanzaro, SantʻAndrea Apostolo dello Ionio, Soverato and Isca sullo Ionio, Nisticò, definitely much more widespread, is absolutely specific to Catanzaro with largely significant presences also for Cardinal, Soverato, Badolato and Isca on the Ionian Sea in Catanzaro, these surnames should derive from nicknames originated from the Greek word ????????, nistekas (fasting).

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[afecad]

Based on my previous experience with dual citizenship, I can say that a lot of these demands for amendments come from the attorneys. They want to get paid while putting in a minimal amount of effort. Zero discrepancies ensure that the case will be approved and not get kicked back.

Yes, my PA Lawyer did ask if I wanted to improve continuity of the spelling, this was a common problem as broken or poor English and hand written forms, often ended with incorrect information. However, my Grandfather's surname is consistently spelled correctly, from the day his Father was born in Isca sullo Ionio and arrived at Ellis Island to present...so all documentation is correct which made that one easy.