Seeking information on Luigi Orso arrived in New York in 1901 from Cabella, Piedmonte, Italy.

[Sololite]

Hi everyone,  I am revisiting the quest to find out about my great grandfather's brother who we believe emigrated to US in in early 1900's.

This forum helped me a few years ago try to establish if a Guiseppi Orso could have been the brother but it was inconclusive. I have recently obtained my great grandfather's birth certificate which show his parents names as Giovanni and Carolina. Once I logged them into the family tree app, the database started to give matches for a Luigi Orso.

There was a Luigi Orso living close to my great grandfather in London in the 1901 census but by 1911 was not listed as living at the address with his wife Mary and daughter. This is the tantalising clue for me as the daughters name was Quintina which is not a million miles away from my great grandfather's name Quinto.

There is a Luigi Orso listed on ships manifest arriving in New York in 1901 aboard Kaiserin Maria Theresia. His age fits with the census for 1901 in the UK.

The manifest lists him as being from Cabella which is close to where the family originally lived in Candelo, so I wonder if he went back to the area from London before heading to New York, leaving his wife and daughter back in London.

The oral history in our family says the brother emigrated to US and nothing more. I guess the piece I need help with concerns trying to find if there are records in the US in which Luigi would have recorded his parents names or original birth place please.

Also I can't see anything on the ships manifest to indicate who he was going to stay with if that is possible to know as it might cross check with other relatives.

I've tried to get this down concisely, I hope it makes sense and thank you to anyone who can help please.

Kind regards,

Chris Orso (UK)

[suanj]

Hi the Luigi and Mary son, Secondo ORSO:
Secondo Orso
1896–1914

birthJULY 1896 • Westminster, London

death 11 NOV 1914 • Bloemfontein, Free State, South Africa

Secondo Orso
South Africa, Orange Free State, Civil Death Registration, 1902-1954





Name:
Secondo Orso
•
Sex:
Male
Age:
17
Death Date:
11 Nov 1914
•
Death Place:
Bloemfontein, Bloemfontein, Orange Free State, South Africa
•
Death Place (Original):
Bloemfontein
•
Birth Year (Estimated):
1897
Birthplace:
England
•
Parent Name:
Louis G Orso
•
Parent 2 Name:
Anna Rome
•
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... ADH1V-LNT2
------------------------------------------------

Quintina:
Quintina Elizabeth Orso
1900–1934

birth 22 JUL 1900 • Lambeth, London, England

death JAN 1934 • Brentford, Middlesex, England
------------------------------------------

maybe you have these records.. abt luigi arrival in USA yes seeming same person..

Luigi Orso
New York Passenger Arrival Lists (Ellis Island), 1892-1924





Name:
Luigi Orso
•
Sex:
Male
Age:
36
Immigration Date:
14 Apr 1901
•
Immigration Place:
Ellis Island, New York City, New York, United States
•
Residence Place:
Cabella
•
Marital Status:
Married
Nationality:
Italy, Italian
Page Number:
3
Affiliate Line Number:
0009
Departure Port:
Genoa
Ship Name:
Kaiserin Maria Theresia

.....
no further traces....

[suanj]

just this record, it is a bit off the birthyear but matching the occupation"chef" like on the death record of Secondo:

Luigi Orso
South Africa, Transvaal, Civil Death, 1869-1954





Name:
Luigi Orso
Sex:
Male
Age:
78
Death Date:
12 Sep 1931
Death Place:
Parktown, Johannesburg, Transvaal, South Africa
Death Place (Original):
Parktown North, Johannesburg
Birth Year (Estimated):
1853
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... A78Z2-S72M

[suanj]

Maryann Rebecca ROME and Luigi Orso had another son: John William born on 20 DEC 1894 • Westminster, London
and married in South Africa:
John William Orso
South Africa, Civil Marriage Records, 1840-1973

Event Type:
Marriage
Name:
John William Orso
•
Sex:
Male
Age:
24
Birth Year (Estimated):
1896
Spouse's Name:
Sarah Nellie Schaut
•
Spouse's Sex:
Female
Spouse's Age:
21
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated):
1899
Marriage Date:
6 Jan 1920
•
Marriage Place:
East London, Kaapprovinsie, Suid-Afrika
•
Marriage Place (Original):
East London, Cape Province
Certificate Number:
2
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... A6ZHP-YK3P
so seeming to me that the family moved in South Africa..
From John William ORSO (who changed his name in italian spelling Giovanni) and Sarah Nellie was born these children:
Vittorio Luigi John Orso

Name:
Vittorio Luigi John Orso
•
Baptism Date:
8 Dec 1927
•
Baptism Place:
South Africa
•
Baptism Place (Original):
Church Of St Luke, Orchards, Johannesburg
•
Birth Date:
29 Jun 1926
•
Father's Name:
Giovanni Orso
•
Father's Sex:
Male
Mother's Name:
Sarah Nellie Johanna Orso
•
Mother's Sex:
Female
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... A6ZRD-JJVD
---------------------------------------
Name Elena Nierceila
Baptism Date 26 Feb 1925
Baptism Place Transvaal, South Africa
Baptism Place (Original) Turffontein
Parent 2 Name Sarah Nellie Orso
Event Place Johannesburg, Turffontein, Holy Trinity
Parent Name Giovanni Orso
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... 3AKYJS-BQV
Elena Mercede Orso ( right Mercede, Nierceila is wrong)

her marriage: Elena Merceda Orso
mentioned in the record of Philip Norman Francis Powell





Name: Elena Merceda Orso
Age: 22
Sex: Unknown
Spouse: Philip Norman Francis Powell
Other information in the record of Philip Norman Francis Powell
from South Africa, Civil Marriage Records, 1840-1973

Name:
Philip Norman Francis Powell
•
Age:
34
Birth Year (Estimated):
1913
Spouse's Name:
Elena Merceda Orso
•
Spouse's Age:
22
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated):
1925
Marriage Date:
1 Mar 1947
•
Marriage Place:
Yeoville, Johannesburg, Transvaal, South Africa
•
Marriage Place (Original):
Yeoville, Johannesburg, Transvaal

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=2821281

[Sololite]

Hi suanj!

you have been amazingly kind to spare your time to uncover these facts for us. I think you inadvertantly found the missing South African brother which will be amazing if you have. I need to get my dates in order and draw this section of the family tree to confirm.

I imagine you are seeing nothing in the US records to suggest that Luigi stayed in US even though he appears on the 1901 ships manifest?

kind regards,

Chris

[suanj]

I found on a census a Luigi Orso, waiter, but I no saved, I don't remember if was the 1905 or 1910 census. However he was a boarder and lived with some other italians... then disappeared.... After the south africans find I am no pretty sure that Luigi Orso emigrated in USA is the same your ancestor... It could be and it could be not.. because the name is popular in the area.. however if was the same person, my idea and just a idea is that lugi and family went back in italy and so soon he went in USA or no went in USA it is no important but then went in south africa.. I believe he was widow .. however alone, and went with sons in south africa.. I believe that quintina and mother went back in UK this is my idea ... because I searched her death in south africa and no found.... so the options are two: or maryann and Quintina remained in Italy and then moved back in UK or is some way the family had split up.... from what I understood this is my idea... the males in south africa and the females in UK... or divorced or widow... but in Italy was no the divorce at that time, so maybe they had parted good-naturedly .....

[orsoch]

Hi saunj,

Amazing and thank you. I am interested in Luigi and Mary's son John William Orso and about how he went to South Africa with his father Luigi and his brother Secondo. The link to familysearch for John William gives just the smallest of details for me. Are you able to see his birth certificate or records that show his parents as Luigi and Mary please?

Thank you once again for taking the time to do this for me.

Kind regards,

Chris

[suanj]

Hi,
I am pretty sure that he was Luigi son... here the details by ancestry.com public genealogic tree owner Andy West:

John William Orso
b. 20 DEC 1894 • Westminster, London
-------------
father
Luigi G Orso
b. ABT 1861 • Candelo, Biella, Piemonte, Italy
d. unknown
-------------
mother:
Maryann Rebecca Rome
b. 26 JAN 1869 • St Martins, London, England
d. unknown
-----------------
I have just this other infos:
the travel in south africa:
Nome
Mr Geovanni Orso
Other
S C Brown
Birth
circa 1893
departure
2 Sep 1911 (2 set 1911) England (Inghilterra)
Arrival
Cape Town, South Africa (Sud Africa)
----------------------------------

abt Luigi

Mr L Orso
Other
J E Ilbery
departure
27 Oct 1902 (27 ott 1902) England (Inghilterra)
arrival
Cape Town, South Africa (Sud Africa)


L Orso
birth
circa 1864
departure
Durban, South Africa
arrival
5 nov 1904 Southampton, England

------------ so on 1904 Luigi went in UK but he residing in south Africa.. this means that the wife was in UK

to see the ship's manifest it is necessary to have a deluxe account of ancestry.com...