Ship manifest entry

[MarcuccioV]

I'm trying to decipher some information from my grandfather's ship manifest from March 1910 that I can't quite make out/understand:

Line 17 (with the '99' in front of it) is my grandfather (Agostino Mattia). Most of the info (age, hometown of Valmontone, father's name, address) are correct.

However if you scroll over to page 2, under relative or friend, it says "brother cousin" (which makes no sense, my grandfather had 6 sisters but no brother) with what looks like either "Bucci" or "Rossi", (and again hard to make out) "Ciro".

My grandfather's brother-in-law was an Alfredo Rossi, born also in Valmontone but he married my grandfather's sister in Detroit in 1917.

The surname "Bucci" also appears in Valmontone, and was the married name of another of his sisters (married much later also, I think 1928, but in Italy, where she remained). I Have genetic matches for both surnames, Rossi and Bucci.

Can anyone make this out..? I've searched for both a Ciro Rossi and Ciro Bucci and can't find anything...

https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/co ... 4004062925

[darkerhorse]

First name could be Cesare.

By the way, Cesare Bocci played Mimi Augello in Detective Montalbamo.

My grandfather was listed as joining a "brother" named Salvatore. No such person existed. But he did have a couple of cousins by that name already in the US. I figured he thought brother sounded better than cousin for immigration purposes.

In this Forum, Pippo said "cousin-brother" was a concept they had in Italy (or maybe in Sicily) for close cousins. I know that phrase exists in other cultures like India.

Do any of the record sites transcribe the name?

[darkerhorse]

I'd vote for Bucci. I don't think the letter s is written like that by Italians.

It could be a cousin's husband referred to as a brother.

[darkerhorse]

Here's a Bucci from Valmontone joining a Coccia in Philly (two of your family names) in 1909.

Both joining addresses (Agostino's record and this one) start with South. One looks like 8th Street. The address numbers are different, though.

By the way, Ancestry transcribes the name as Sussi Giron, lot's of help.

[darkerhorse]

In that generation, marriages between families related by blood wasn't uncommon. Maybe the brother cousin was a blood relative, or maybe just an in-law.

[MarcuccioV]

Translation is "Sussi Giron". Obviously incorrect. I think it's Ciro as it appears that the second letter is a dotted i. In any case, I looked for ANY "c" name under both surnames -- I found one 'Carlo', but it sure doesn't look like that. I had at first thought it might be 'Giro' (for Giralomo) but the writer makes his g's totally different.

It's funny -- it depends on how I look at it. Half the time I see Rossi & the other half Bucci.

There are no close cousins with either surname on my tree. Only the 2 brothers-in-law I mentioned.

There are a couple of mother's not named on their children's death acts. It's possible one (or both) could be the missing Bucci/Rossi...

[MarcuccioV]

I found that my grandfather's aunt (his mother's sister) married a Giovanni Bucci in 1873 -- it is most likely their son. That would make him about the right age. I'll have to scour the birth registers again...

[MarcuccioV]

Here's a Bucci from Valmontone joining a Coccia in Philly (two of your family names) in 1909.

Both joining addresses (Agostino's record and this one) start with South. One looks like 8th Street. The address numbers are different, though.

By the way, Ancestry transcribes the name as Sussi Giron, lot's of help.

Yes, Coccia is the surname of yet ANOTHER of my grandfather's brothers-in-law, but one who did not emigrate (at least not until after my grandfather's sister died at about age 34).

The Bucci I mentioned that married my grandfather's aunt had a son, "Pio". His wife was a Ciafrei (they were married in 1905). That is a surname tied to yet another genetic matches tree. The Ciafrei's were from the neighboring commune of Artena, which also has Bucci's. I'm so confused...

[MarcuccioV]

If you look 3 lines above my grandfather's name, you will see an entry for a "Ciro". It looks exactly the same as the "brother cousin's" name. Unless it was a misunderstanding, "Ciro" for "Pio". I found a daughter born to the same parents a few years later, but no children in-between and definitely no Ciro...

[darkerhorse]

Pippo will solve this for you when he wakes up and reads it. Next time post it in the translation topic for more responses.

By the way, I came across your grandmother's photo again, and she reminded me of your new cousin. So, there is a resemblance.

[MarcuccioV]

Pippo will solve this for you when he wakes up and reads it. Next time post it in the translation topic for more responses.

By the way, I came across your grandmother's photo again, and she reminded me of your new cousin. So, there is a resemblance.

Same button nose. I am FB friends with her now, so I have access to more pics. She resembles my mother even stronger. I was able to put her in contact with her oldest half-sister. They hit it off well...

[darkerhorse]

Did you notice that the person listed before your grandfather, Giovanni Proscio, also from Valmontone, was joining his brother at the same address in Philly, 919 South 8th Street, as your grandfather?

[MarcuccioV]

Did you notice that the person listed before your grandfather, Giovanni Proscio, also from Valmontone, was joining his brother at the same address in Philly, 919 South 8th Street, as your grandfather?

Proscio is another common Valmontone name, and again, it's found in my matches trees. I think on one of the lines I've researched, there was a spouse named Proscio (no direct relation to me as yet). The address of Via San Francesco is kind of an extension of Corso Garibaldi, where my grandfather was born/lived...

[darkerhorse]

A Bucci family living at South 8th Street in Philly in 1920, though at a different house number. I didn't find 919. I've seen immigrants listing a travel office, or some other non-residential address, as the place they are joining their friend or relative in the U.S.

Seems more evidence that the name in question is Bucci.

[MarcuccioV]

A Bucci family living at South 8th Street in Philly in 1920, though at a different house number. I didn't find 919. I've seen immigrants listing a travel office, or some other non-residential address, as the place they are joining their friend or relative in the U.S.

Seems more evidence that the name in question is Bucci.

I agree that it's most likely Bucci. 919 S 8th looks to be a 3-story brick brownstone-like building on a corner...