Missing Birth Record Cosenza

[zoobteach]

Hi all,
I've hit a major road block and would like some advice. I am looking for the birth record of my great grandfather Giovanni Chiappetta. I have written to the comune and have received his marriage and death records (he returned to Italy after immigrating to the US). But they do not have a birth record.

The marriage certificate lists only the ages of my great grandparents-- it does not have their dates of birth. The clerk said that they were not able to issue a birth certificate for Giovanni as the birth certificate was omitted.

So far I have contacted the Archdiocese historian's office. They were able to provide a marriage document, but no birth record. I've attempted to contact the local parish via Facebook. Someone did get back to me saying they did not have access to records from the 1880s because they were so old. The State Archives of Cosenza wrote back saying they only have records until 1865, everything after that is held at the comuni.

Here is his information:
Giovanni Chiappetta
Parents: Giuseppe Chiappetta and Maria Pace (I found a possible Pace line in Rogliano)
Born: 19 April 1890 (this is uncertain, but what he put on all of his American documents)
Place of birth: Rogliano (again, uncertain, but what he put on his American documents)
Married: 4 July 1908 in Rogliano (married Maria Giuseppa Amato)
Died: 4 February 1975 Rogliano

Pubblicazione di Matrimonio: https://www.antenati.san.beniculturali. ... d=35988841 (pg 13 entry #22 in 1908, Rogliano)

Marriage document received from the Archdiocese of Cosenza-Bisignano: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vdYk1x ... p=sharing

Would he be on a Lista di Leva or any other military docs? He left for the US in May 1909.

I apologize for the wall of text. There is a Find a Grave entry for him, but much of the information is factually inaccurate. This is the last document needed to complete my 1948 citizenship case.

Thank you for any suggestions.
Dan

[PippoM]

Well, you can try here:

https://www.postercosenza.beniculturali.it/

Though there doesn't seem to be one born in 1890 in Rogliano. You will have to go through them one by one.

Or you can try here:

https://www.familysearch.org/search/cat ... %20Library

But these only can be seen at Family History Centers of the Mormon Church.
I see unfortunately 1908 marriages are missing on Antenati. The marriage record should state where he was born, so, if you can check at a FHC, you better look for the marriage record, first.

[Italysearcher]

The publication document is very faded but it does give the date of birth of Giovanni as April 1890. Dates of birth are not usually mentioned on publications so I am wondering if it is there because there is no birth record and he is just 18.
I would ask the town or Archives (complicated) to issue an extract or certificate or certified copy of the document and then get a no record found letter from the Stato civile. The two together should be enough to support your case.
If you need help with this PM me.

[zoobteach]

Thank you both for the advice. I have searched through the Rogliano and immediate surrounding comuni on Family Search but have not found anything on Giovanni's birth-- plenty on other relatives, though! There aren't many Chiappettas in Southern Cosenza. Unfortunately the 1908 marriage file is missing on Family Search, too. I'm hoping to get to our Family History Center tomorrow and try to pull up the Consenza military records. The search continues!

Italysearcher, I sent you a PM but am not sure if it went through.

[cedrone]

I don't think you find more at the Family Search center, you'll see probably the same registers present on Antenati, that are at the Archivio di Stato of Cosenza. Also the marriage act is not useful, because doesn't give the birth dates.
You found the pubblicazioni and this is what you need. It is damaged but I think to have read enough.

It happened that for some reason the birth act of this person was not written on the register of 1890.

[cedrone]

It is possible that it has been written later, even many years later, you may look at all the following years.
But for the pubblicazioni was presented an 'atto notorio' from which resulted that the person was born in that Comune (if I read correctly) in April 1890 (no indication of the day), that is a declaration of this fact made by some witnesses. [so this agree with what you found in the American papers]
This document and the others necessary should have been put in the 'Allegati' and, if not lost, should be again at the Comune or at the Archivio di Stato, so you may ask again if they are present or no longer existing.
Another document listed is the decision of the 'Consiglio di famiglia' to authorize the marriage, as he was a minor and evidently the parents were deceased.

[cedrone]

Also the baptism act should be found by the parish or the Archive of the Diocesi

[zoobteach]

I am going through the Cosenza military records right now on Family Search. I was able to find Giovanni's record in the Lista d'Estrazione. No date of birth. I'm glad I found it, but it's not much help I guess.

Any pertinent info that anyone can see in the document?

Giovanni Chiappetta Lista d'Estrazione 1890 2.png

I am going to dig a little more through the military films. Might as well find the rest of the ancestors records.

[suanj]

Hi,
if the birth record is missing, you can ask the baptism certificate....because the baptism was made to 99% on the same day of birth... and surely he was baptized...

[darkerhorse]

I am going through the Cosenza military records right now on Family Search. I was able to find Giovanni's record in the Lista d'Estrazione. No date of birth. I'm glad I found it, but it's not much help I guess.

Any pertinent info that anyone can see in the document?

Giovanni Chiappetta Lista d'Estrazione 1890 2.png

I am going to dig a little more through the military films. Might as well find the rest of the ancestors records.

Where did you find the military records online?

[suanj]

From what I read by the marriage ban, Giovanni don't knew where and when his parents died.... and I believe he was no born in Rogliano, however because the bride was pregnant, the Mayor on May 30, 1908 he appointed a guardian of the minor and a family council and gave him the opportunity to marry immediately, and since he did not bear much of his birth, they entered Rogliano as a place of birth, but because it was necessary to have data with which to draw up the marriage record. The family council don't was of persons related to Giovanni, but just people of Rogliano that they worked to give their names to be able to complete all the documents necessary for the wedding..
From what I understand the names of the parents could also be made up. Basically this guy is like he didn't have an identity. There is no evidence that he was who he says he is. The draft list was also formed on the basis of the notorious deed made in Rogliano for the purpose of marriage. A notorious deed is an act in which two witnesses declare that they know the person personally and affirm that he is who he claims to be. But why if Giovanni was really born in Rogliano, there is no birth record? Neither in that year nor in the following ones? And if he was born elsewhere, was it not possible to go and ask for the certificate from his municipality of birth? It is strange that if he was born in the area he did not go to get a birth certificate, but had to resort to the stratagem of the notorious deed. The witnesses declared what Giovanni confided to them. Looking for his birth in Rogliano leads to nothing because he was not born in Rogliano and indeed from experience I can say that in the area entire families of peasants and shepherds moved from town to town to work with the rich landowners. It happened that in the same family the children were born in different municipalities but always in the provincial area.

[suanj]

Again me, searching, Giovanni Chiappetta going on 1909 to his cousin Vincenzo Mastroianni on 343 lindon ST Brooklyn.. well on same address on 1910 census the Vincenzo Mastroianni and wife Carmela( then, infurther records seeming she changed her name in Elizabeth) was born around 1877
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... 3AMP1W-6Y7
well by his WWI draft registration card Vincenzo was born on 27 Mar 1877 no birth date, but in Italy on liste di leva he was born n 28 Mar 1877 in PARENTI son of Giovanni Mastroianni and Mariantonia Perri..
parenti is far from Rogliano just 13 km abt so maybe it could be a trace... who know... Giovanni was very young when married and the his birth area cannot be far from Rogliano.. just I cannot imagine why he no said the his real birthplace---
suanj