did my grandfather naturalize?

[ricbru]

I am currently trying to obtion dual citizenship through my paternal grandfather, Franco Franconi, so I can work in Europe. Unfortunately, both of my grandparents are deceased and the rest of the family doesn't know if my grandfather ever naturalized (or my great-grandfather, Ferdinando Franconi, for that matter since my grandfather was a minor when he arrived in the States). In any case, the National Records Center in Missouri has told me it will take anywhere from five months to a year to get this information back. Is there any other way to find out whether he naturalized or not? I could be getting a lot of the paperwork together in the meantime but I'm just out of college and don't have the money to spare if I can't even apply in the end. Does anyone have any suggestions? I'd appreciate any help.

(My grandfather, Franco Franconi, was born in the Reggio Calabria region of Italy in 1909 and came to the States when he was three years old. He returned to Italy when he was 16 for three more years and then finally settled in the Wyoming Valley region of Pennsylvania. Again, his father, Ferdinando Franconi, might have naturalized for the household while my father was still a minor.)

Hello,
I would suggest you to contact the Naturalization record office in St.Louis, Missouri.

USCIS National Record Center
FOIA Division
P.O. Box 648010
Lee Summit, MO 64064-5570

I experienced that one they get your request, that answer you right away telling you the cost of the research ( $ 25 if found, otherwise it is free), and after that in a couple of weeks thay tell you if they found if or not
I also suggest you this web page

http://home.att.net/~wee-monster/natura ... cords.html

I hope it helps, bye Riccardo

[maddief]

Thank you all for your help. I just wish your answers had been that he hadn't naturalized! (

[mfjp]

You can still work in Italy... can't you...??

Without having dual citizenship??

Maria

[maddief]

Actually, I was looking to work in France. Extremely difficult with the unemployment rates over there, added to the fact that all members of the European Union who apply for the job will get it before you. Was just trying to save myself some HUGE hassles.

[mfjp]

Thanks for your reply... thanks for the info too...

Should you wish to pursue family history... please re-post.

Best of luck to you!!

Maria

[maddief]

One more question: If my great-grandfather naturalized while the rest of the family were still in Italy, are the minors that were not in the States at the time of naturalization still considered naturalized? (I know it's a stretch but I really want this bad....)

[wldspirit]

I do not know if this will help, but there are a number of criteria with regard to naturalization, here are a few sites which may be able to give you some insight:

http://www.italiamerica.org/id71.htm

http://www.bellaconsultants.com/italy.html

http://www.ambwashingtondc.esteri.it/am ... washington

wldspirit

[mler]

No, Franco's brother was named Aldo.

So I guess this means that my dreams of dual citizenship are dashed... (

Would I be able to apply through my maternal great-grandparents? Although I would expect them to have naturalized as well.

Naturalization does not mean you are not eligible for dual citizenship. It is the timing of the naturalization that is significant. For specific information on dual citizenship requirements and procedures visit:

www.myitaliancitizenship.com

Ciao

[maddief]

What about the timing is important? I thought if the family member naturalized, it broke the chain of jure sanguinis and that was it as far as dual citizenship is concerned.

[wldspirit]

Whatever your circumstances, remember that there are two principle laws governing Italian citizenship jure sanguinis. The first is that citizenship can only be passed to a child while the parent is still an Italian citizen. That is, parents who became naturalized citizens of their new country BEFORE the birth of their children lost their Italian citizenship and COULD NOT pass citizenship on to them, while parents who became naturalized AFTER the birth of their children COULD pass citizenship on to them.

The second law is that citizenship could not be passed from a woman to her children prior to January 1, 1948. That is not to say that citizenship could not be passed TO females prior to 1948; it just could not be passed FROM a mother before January 1, 1948.
Citizenship jure sanguinis has no generational limit (provided the Italian ancestor was born after 1861) but may not, under any circumstances, SKIP generations.

wldspirit

[maddief]

I thought that there was one additional rule: If the head of the household (aka dad) naturalized at any point while his children were still minors, those minors would be considered naturalized as well. Can anyone clarify???

[mler]

Depends on where the children were born. If they were born in the U.S., they were already citizens, so the naturalization did not apply to them.

You don't provide information on your mom's side of the family, which may work better for you.

[wldspirit]

The first step is in making the determination of WHEN and IF your ancestor naturalized, in order to qualify the naturalization could not occur before the birth of the ancestor in question.

Ricbru provided an address to send for documentation, here is another site for naturalization records........you need to locate these documents before you can proceed any further:

http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/aboutus/h ... NATREC.htm

http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/formsfee/forms/g-639.htm

wldspirit

[mler]

Wldspirit is totally right. You shouldn't waste time and money on this process unless you're sure you qualify.

I reread your initial posting, and based on the information you provide, I think you probably do not qualify through the paternal side of the family because your grandfather was born in Italy, and it appears your g-grandfather naturalized while your grandfather was still a minor. As you correctly surmise, it is likely that your grandfather was naturalized at the same time.

However, I'd like to stress that there may also be options for you on the maternal side so don't give up just yet. I was convinced I didn't qualify (because of the 1948 rule) and then through some casual genealogical research, I discovered that I could qualify through my dad. You don't know unless you check.

Good luck.

[maddief]

I copied and pasted this from a website:

- If your parents became U.S. citizens when you were a minor, or if you were a minor on April 21, 1983, you will have to sign a statement with which you opt for the Italian citizenship.
- If you were a minor on April 21, 1983, and your father or mother (depending on whom you are tracing your citizenship through) became a naturalized U.S. citizen after that date, you have lost your right to Italian citizenship.

So what does that mean for me if my great-grandfather naturalized when my grandfather was still a minor (it's possible that he hadn't even come to the country with his mother yet)?