Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt over Jure Sanguinis!

[pastasugo]

We understand your position Gabino. But the consulate has already reviewed his documents, and they disagree. It is their call, not yours or mine. Hopefully they will change their minds and come around to your point of view. If not, he will need to try a different route to citizenship.

[jenalonso]

Thanks for finally settling that debate, Gabino!

Jennifer

[pastasugo]

Thanks for finally settling that debate, Gabino!

Jennifer

Only the consulate can decide the issue. We may hope the consulate agrees with you and Gabino. But so far, they disagree, and their decision is the one that counts.

[hellosquire]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for taking an interest in my unique situation. I certainly hope that my grandmother's claim through jure sanguinis preempts a possible loss of citizenship through marriage. To be honest, the article of the 1992 citizenship law that I believe the consulate is referring to offers no solution to the paradox that arises with my particular situation.

Here's a synopsis of the article towards the end of the 1992 citizenship law covering jure sanguinis, noting that this isn't an exact translation of the italian and rather an explanation of the article itself made by a third party that I cannot verify right now :

"wives of Italian citizens naturalised in the United States before 19 September 1975 have lost their Italian citizenship but can reacquire it by presenting the appropriate application. If the husband was naturalised after 19 September 1975, his wife has not lost her citizenship and continues to pass it on to her children."

Hopefully I'll be successful - the consular official only stated that she thinks there may be a problem, and did not reject my application outright. In fact, she accepted it, and asked me if my grandmother ever renounced her citizenship. Of course, she never would of done it voluntarily, and I handed her all of the application forms signed by my father (my living ascendant) stating that neither he nor she ever renounced citizenship. They said they'd call me, but they haven't yet, so I'll just have to see what happens

I'll keep everyone updated on my progress, but if anyone has been in a similar situation (I'd imagine there must be someone out there who has - (Italian American women often married Italian nationals) please share!

[gabino]

Hellosquire, if the Consulate accepted your documents, you ARE an Italian citizen by virtue of bloodline and birth. They would not accept your documents and then return them to you later on, saying you don't qualify. The point to be made is that there can be no "former laws", which would interfere with the 1992 law of jure sanguinis. The 1992 law "overrides" and virtually abolishes previous laws that exsited, as long as you fall into one of the appropriate categories of qualification.
Congratulations!

[peggymckee]

Hi Gabino!

For Hellosquire's sake, I hope you are right. All the best, Peggy M

[pastasugo]

Actually there have been people who turned in their documents at the consulate and were later informed, on closer examination, that the consulate could not recognize their jus sanguinis citizenship.

Until the consulate informs you by letter that your application has been approved and sent to the comune for trascrizione, and you may now apply for a passport and register in AIRE, you are not an Italian citizen.

That said, let's hope hellosquire's application is approved and he receives the letter of notification soon.

[mler]

Hellosquire, if the Consulate accepted your documents, you ARE an Italian citizen by virtue of bloodline and birth. They would not accept your documents and then return them to you later on, saying you don't qualify. The point to be made is that there can be no "former laws", which would interfere with the 1992 law of jure sanguinis. The 1992 law "overrides" and virtually abolishes previous laws that exsited, as long as you fall into one of the appropriate categories of qualification.
Congratulations!

That's not exactly true, gabino. New laws change the rules from that date, but do not necessarily apply retroactively. For example, in 1948 women were permitted to pass citizenship. This did not change things, however, for those born to Italian women in 1947.

It seems to most of us that hellosquire should qualify through his grandmother. However, the Italian consulate is saying that at that time, a woman lost her Italian citizenship when her Italian husband naturalized. I think most of us interpret this as affecting only an Italian woman (born in Italy) who emigrated with her husband. However, the consulate speculates that this law may also apply to a woman who was Italian by virtue of jure sanguinis.

I don't like this interpretation, but as pastasugo accurately states, it is not our call. The consulate will have the final say on how Italian law is interpreted.

[Steverino3006]

This is an interesting thread. Do we know the final decision by the consulate?

[idmaclean]

I would like to know more too as it is similiar to my case:

1)me

2) mother (born 1948)

3) grandmother (born in USA, married 1935 to an Italian born citizen of the USA that was naturalized in 1922)

4) great grandfather, never naturalized

[mler]

Idmaclean, I can guarantee it doesn't apply to your case.

Your grandfather naturalized before his marriage as did my husband who naturalized three years before our marriage (pre 1975). My citizenship was recognized last year. The consulate was aware of my husband's naturalization.