Hello,
Anyone with the knowledge to help, I would greatly appreciate some advice! I have a citizenship iure sanguinis appointment in Chicago, which crucially hangs on the fact that my great-grandfather was a minor under Italian law when he naturalized as an American citizen. Therefore he never lost his Italian citizenship and was able to transmit it to my grandmother, my father and then to me.
My one concern is that this all hinges on a Petition for Naturalization which I found in the archives of the Cook County courthouse in Chicago which I believe is my great-grandfather's. Because he naturalized in 1903, only the Petition survives (Certificates of Naturalization were not preserved in the archives before 1906). Only his name, address, country of origin (Italy), and the name of a witness are on the petition. I cannot find anyone with his name that was in Chicago at that time, and the fact that he is applying as an independent minor makes sense because he came to the country without his parents. His street address is also the same as that on the Naturalization record for his brother Carmine, which we do have. Also the name of the witness was from a family related to ours. Therefore I think it is very likely him.
My worry is that the Consulate will think that this is not solid enough proof and might reject my application. Also, all I have is a photocopy of the record sent to me by the archivist in Chicago, so I wonder should I get an apostille from the State of Illinois to officialize it?
How Strict is the Chicago Consulate on Naturalization Records
Re: How Strict is the Chicago Consulate on Naturalization Records
How do you know he naturalized in 1903? I ask because the age of majority in the US during that period was 21 (the same as in Italy), and I don’t believe that it was possible to naturalize as a minor unless the naturalization was military related. (I’m not totally sure about this, however.)
Do you have other evidence of naturalization such as census records? The petition may not be your great grandfather’s, so you need to check further.
Although I have no personal experience with the Chicago consulate, they do have a reputation for being thorough. If your great grandfather did indeed naturalize before the age of 21, he would not have lost citizenship. If he was an adult when he naturalized, the so called “1912” rule would kick in, and that would be an issue.
Keep in mind, however, that a Petition of Naturalization is not evidence that naturalization took place. My guess is that the consulate will ask for more information, so, before your appointment, you should make every attempt to determine if that petition is your grandfather’s and/or if he subsequently naturalized as a minor or an adult. The census records may be the first place to look.
Do you have other evidence of naturalization such as census records? The petition may not be your great grandfather’s, so you need to check further.
Although I have no personal experience with the Chicago consulate, they do have a reputation for being thorough. If your great grandfather did indeed naturalize before the age of 21, he would not have lost citizenship. If he was an adult when he naturalized, the so called “1912” rule would kick in, and that would be an issue.
Keep in mind, however, that a Petition of Naturalization is not evidence that naturalization took place. My guess is that the consulate will ask for more information, so, before your appointment, you should make every attempt to determine if that petition is your grandfather’s and/or if he subsequently naturalized as a minor or an adult. The census records may be the first place to look.
Re: How Strict is the Chicago Consulate on Naturalization Records
Thank you Mler for your response,
You've raised some very good points. I have his census records for both 1900 and 1910, he was listed as an Alien in 1900 but as a Naturalized citizen in 1910. So he was naturalized at some point in those 10 years, which I'm hoping makes it all the more reasonable that the record I have found is him. But of course this is far from conclusive.
And sorry I should have been more specific, I have the Petition but also a soundex card listing date of naturalization, 6th April 1903. So the naturalization did occur. The petition lists him specifically as a Minor applying for naturalization. I didn't think minors could apply either so I was surprised. He would have been 19 years old at this time.
I tried to source naturalization records from the National Archives, but records from so early a date were only made on the state level, so they're not retained in the federal archives. I'm hoping his brother Carmine's naturalization record will help, he naturalized in 1895 and is listed as living on the same street that the 1903 record lists. They were also working together in Montana as coal miners in 1900, so I know they were together during these years. But again, all circumstantial. Sorry to bombard you with all this information.
You've raised some very good points. I have his census records for both 1900 and 1910, he was listed as an Alien in 1900 but as a Naturalized citizen in 1910. So he was naturalized at some point in those 10 years, which I'm hoping makes it all the more reasonable that the record I have found is him. But of course this is far from conclusive.
And sorry I should have been more specific, I have the Petition but also a soundex card listing date of naturalization, 6th April 1903. So the naturalization did occur. The petition lists him specifically as a Minor applying for naturalization. I didn't think minors could apply either so I was surprised. He would have been 19 years old at this time.
I tried to source naturalization records from the National Archives, but records from so early a date were only made on the state level, so they're not retained in the federal archives. I'm hoping his brother Carmine's naturalization record will help, he naturalized in 1895 and is listed as living on the same street that the 1903 record lists. They were also working together in Montana as coal miners in 1900, so I know they were together during these years. But again, all circumstantial. Sorry to bombard you with all this information.
Re: How Strict is the Chicago Consulate on Naturalization Records
Then, it would appear to be to your advantage to prove that he naturalized in 1903. Perhaps the soundex card accompanied by the Petition and the census will be sufficient, but you may still have a problem since the soundex card is not an official record. If the Petition declares him to be applying as a minor, that may help too.
If you request his records from the National Archives, you should get an official response stating that no naturalization records are available before 1906 and that no records were found after that date. This would seem to support the soundex information.
There’s no quarantee, of course, that the consulate will accept this, but you have nothing to lose by trying; and if you are unsuccessful, you can check with a lawyer regarding other options.
One more question: Nineteen is rather young, but is it possible that he was married at that time?
If you request his records from the National Archives, you should get an official response stating that no naturalization records are available before 1906 and that no records were found after that date. This would seem to support the soundex information.
There’s no quarantee, of course, that the consulate will accept this, but you have nothing to lose by trying; and if you are unsuccessful, you can check with a lawyer regarding other options.
One more question: Nineteen is rather young, but is it possible that he was married at that time?
Re: How Strict is the Chicago Consulate on Naturalization Records
He was single at this point, he married my great-grandmother in 1906 in Denver. I have the marriage certificate.
And I had a closer look at the Petition after I replied to you last night, and he declares himself to be 21 years old, so you were right that he needed to be a legal adult to apply. He seems to have lied though, because he was 19 according to the Italian birth certificate, and the arrival manifest from Ellis Island lists him as age 16 in 1899. The manifest from 1899 also lists him as intending to go join his brother Carmine at South Clark Street in Chicago, which is the same street listed on the Petition of 1903 (though the house number has changed).
It also looks like the Cook Co. records are held in the National Archives after all, at least according to Ancestry.com. So hopefully I can get a certified copy of the Soundex record and the Petition.
And I had a closer look at the Petition after I replied to you last night, and he declares himself to be 21 years old, so you were right that he needed to be a legal adult to apply. He seems to have lied though, because he was 19 according to the Italian birth certificate, and the arrival manifest from Ellis Island lists him as age 16 in 1899. The manifest from 1899 also lists him as intending to go join his brother Carmine at South Clark Street in Chicago, which is the same street listed on the Petition of 1903 (though the house number has changed).
It also looks like the Cook Co. records are held in the National Archives after all, at least according to Ancestry.com. So hopefully I can get a certified copy of the Soundex record and the Petition.
Re: How Strict is the Chicago Consulate on Naturalization Records
That would be good. If he lied on his petition, that would explain a lot. It’s not the age he claimed to be that is important; it’s the age he actually was. The birth certificate and the arrival manifest should support your claim that he naturalized as a minor. This would mean he didn’t lose Italian citizenship.
Re: How Strict is the Chicago Consulate on Naturalization Records
Are you sure this is him? If he arrived in 1899, he would have been required to have maintained permanent residency for five years before being allowed to file a petition for citizenship. That and the age of 19 makes it doubtful.
Re: How Strict is the Chicago Consulate on Naturalization Records
I can't conclusively prove that it is him, that's where my problem lies. What I'm going on is that I have not been able to find anyone else with his name living in Illinois before 1910, so that it makes it more likely that the Frank Capillupo on the 1903 record I found is him. His brother was well established in Chicago at this time and I can prove he was with him as of 1900.
And yes he appears to have lied about how long he had lived in America as well, he lists 10 years on the Petition. What mechanism would the Chicago court have had to verify if he was telling the truth on these details, especially at such an early date?
And yes he appears to have lied about how long he had lived in America as well, he lists 10 years on the Petition. What mechanism would the Chicago court have had to verify if he was telling the truth on these details, especially at such an early date?
Re: How Strict is the Chicago Consulate on Naturalization Records
Do you have the Oath along with the petition? If you don't have an oath then he didn't naturalize as a result of the petition he filed when he lied about his age and his residency. I would start looking for another petition AND oath filed after he got married. Was the woman he married in 1906 an American citizen or was she Italian? If she was from Denver, I am thinking she was not Italian as I wouldn't think too many women from Italy were living in Denver at the time as opposed to on the East Coast.