I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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tuper16
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Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Post by tuper16 » 11 Aug 2014, 08:19

Congratulations Ignacio! I am very happy for you and your family. Being an Italo-Argentinean myself, and having applied to Italian Citizenship due similar family and cultural ties, I can imagine the happiness and pride that the judicial decision gave to you.
All the best,
tuper16

jennabet
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Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Post by jennabet » 11 Aug 2014, 18:12

Yes, there are many Italo-Argentinians who have returned to Italy. After I was recognized by the Philadelphia consulate in 2001, I returned to live in Italy and attended an Italian language course. Some of my class mates were newly arrived Italo-Argentinians. Of course, as native Spanish speakers, they learned Italian faster than I did even though my immediate family in the US spoke fluent Italian as all four of my grand-parents were born and raised in Italy.

Aeloza
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Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Post by Aeloza » 27 Aug 2014, 01:47

ignacio wrote:Just want to share my experience working with Luigi Paiano. I am Italian from my mother’s side, my great grandfather emigrated from Piedmont to Argentina in late XIX century, gave birth to my grandmother who then gave birth to my mother. It was surprising for us to learn that even though my great grandfather was given the Commendatore order by the Italian Embassy and that my grandmother’s brothers were all Italian citizens, my mother and her sons could not apply for citizenship via the consulate. We could have applied for other European citizenships like that of Spain, Malta or Ireland but we had a preference for Italy.

As we are all fluent in Italian in my family and have a number of Italian friends it was quite easy to reach to several lawyers in Italy; some of them quite large firms in Milano and other large cities. However, at the time very few had handled this sort of cases, even though many were bragging about their experience. When I got to talk to Luigi Paiano I liked his honesty when he said he had only filed one case and won it. I sent all of our documents in late 2009 and Luigi filed in early 2010. I received an answer by mid 2012. After that there was a six month wait for all the registration process in our comuna in Piedmont. When my brother, my mother and I each went to the consulate to obtain our passports the staff were very happy to finally process our applications.

I totally recommend the services of Luigi Paiano, he is very professional, knowledgeable and responsive.

Hola Ignacio!!! Tengo mucho interés en saber qué pasó una vez que te llego la sentencia definitiva. Cuales fueron los pasos siguiente?? Como te presentaste al Consulado para obtener el pasaporte y registrarte como ciudadano?? Gracias! Toda la info es super bienvenida (inclusive en ingles!!) Un abrazo!

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Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Post by Aeloza » 09 Nov 2014, 06:50

Last week I received the notices that our italian citizenship has been recognised by the Judge! From now on we must wait 6 month. After that we can proceed with the rest of the process which includes the registration in the Comune of our "dati anagrafici". I am very happy!

JohnnyNight
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Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Post by JohnnyNight » 21 Feb 2015, 11:01

jennabet

Why don't you find something better to do with you life than continually spouting your racist diatribe over and over again.

I've never encountered such a depressing disgusting individual such as yourself in all of the Italian citizenship forums that I have been on.

What is your problem in life...?

Qliner
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Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Post by Qliner » 31 Jan 2017, 02:52

LOL just read the last post

sciaccabound
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Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Post by sciaccabound » 22 May 2017, 22:12

jennabet,

I had to register just to comment in regard to your ignorant assumptions. My line is 100% Italian, however the male line contains a huge amount of name discrepancies that will more than likely not be recognized. The female lines are name intact, and would be MUCH easier, and less costly to pursue. It isn't fair that I can trace ancestry through 4 lines, but only one is allowed to be recognized.

Please don't assume that you have all the facts. There are legitimate reasons for some attempts to overturn a gender biased rule.

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mler
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Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Post by mler » 23 May 2017, 19:15

It is remarkable to me that, despite all the court decisions overturning the pre-1948 restrictions, that the 1948 law has not been declared retroactive.

It would save applicants a great deal of money and relieve the court system of an unnecessary burden. Totally win-win.

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Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Post by jennabet » 24 May 2017, 18:56

sciaccabound wrote:
22 May 2017, 22:12
jennabet,

I had to register just to comment in regard to your ignorant assumptions. My line is 100% Italian, however the male line contains a huge amount of name discrepancies that will more than likely not be recognized. The female lines are name intact, and would be MUCH easier, and less costly to pursue. It isn't fair that I can trace ancestry through 4 lines, but only one is allowed to be recognized.

Please don't assume that you have all the facts. There are legitimate reasons for some attempts to overturn a gender biased rule.
You win some and you lose some. Both of my lines are all Italian as well but I was only allowed to use my father's line because my Italian mother gave birth to me before 1948. And remember, before 1992, you couldn't use the female line at all so you should consider yourself lucky instead of it being unfair. Also, the actions your immigrant ancestors took are important. If they allowed their Italian names to contain discrepancies because they no longer lived in Italy, who's fault is that? I'm sure all immigrants are aware of the legal names they were given at birth. My grand-parents certainly did and our family never had any discrepancies.

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mler
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Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Post by mler » 24 May 2017, 22:08

Actually, you couldn't use any line (male or female) before 1992 unless you were willing to give up your current citizenship.

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Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Post by OpusReticulatum » 26 May 2017, 17:11

sciaccabound wrote:
22 May 2017, 22:12
My line is 100% Italian, however the male line contains a huge amount of name discrepancies that will more than likely not be recognized. The female lines are name intact, and would be MUCH easier, and less costly to pursue. It isn't fair that I can trace ancestry through 4 lines, but only one is allowed to be recognized.
sciaccabound,

Please note that the Italian courts have, over the past year, stopped accepting cases with lines that could be pursued through the consulates. In other words, if you have a male line that would work, but you file a 1948 case in the courts, they will either kick it back to you and tell you to go through the consulate, or they will ask for proof that the male line was broken by a disqualifying naturalization.

Also, the courts have been requiring people who are pursuing 1948 cases, but who have an Italian-born male line ancestor, to provide proof (usually a naturalization certificate) that they cannot go through said ancestor. (For example, in a claim that is GGF>GM>Parent>You , if your claim passes through your grandmother and your grandfather was born in Italy, they will make you prove that you cannot go through your grandfather instead.)

So, if you have an unbroken male line of citizenship, you might have to first go through the consulate. If the name discrepancies are problematic enough for the consulate to reject you, you will need to get the rejection in writing. Then could you then submit a 1948 case (and you would have to provide a copy of your consular rejection along with your other documents).*

Or, you might be able to file a case for the male line, claiming that you were wrongly rejected by the consulate.**

* and ** : Of course, you should discuss this with an Italian citizenship lawyer first. They know the process and current court requirements. I'm not sure how the courts would differentiate between name discrepancies that could be resolved, but at great expense and effort and name discrepancies which are impossible to resolve. For the former, perhaps they would view the time and expense as undue burdens on the petitioner, and as for the latter, I'm not sure what they would require as proof that the name discrepancies cannot be resolved. A lawyer should be able to advise.

OpusReticulatum
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Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Post by OpusReticulatum » 26 May 2017, 17:18

mler wrote:
23 May 2017, 19:15
It is remarkable to me that, despite all the court decisions overturning the pre-1948 restrictions, that the 1948 law has not been declared retroactive.

It would save applicants a great deal of money and relieve the court system of an unnecessary burden. Totally win-win.
Definitely. Last last year I saw someone the RAI program "Community" discussing this very thing. I think that the guest was one of the Italian members of Parliament who represent the Italians in estero.

OpusReticulatum
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Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Post by OpusReticulatum » 26 May 2017, 17:20

[/quote]
And remember, before 1992, you couldn't use the female line at all so you should consider yourself lucky instead of it being unfair.
[/quote]

Are you sure about this? Why would one not be able to use a female line prior to 1992? Women have been able to pass on citizenship since 1948.

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Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Post by OpusReticulatum » 26 May 2017, 17:39

mler wrote:
24 May 2017, 22:08
Actually, you couldn't use any line (male or female) before 1992 unless you were willing to give up your current citizenship.
I'm not sure about this. While Italian nationality law did not permit dual citizenship for people born only with Italian citizenship, it allowed it for those born with both Italian citizenship and another citizenship. A person born in Italy who became a Canadian citizen lost their Italian citizenship. However, a person born to an Italian citizen in Canada was born with both citizenships and would have been eligible for recognition by the Italian consulates. (But, if said Italo-Canadian naturalized in a third country prior to 1992, they would have lost their Italian citizenship.)

That's one of the facets of Italian nationality law which allows for jure sanguinis claims for people born outside of Italy, even going back several generations. If your claim was GGF>GF>F>You and your GF was born in the US, your GF and F would have had to have been both US and Italian citizens, from birth up through 1992, in order for you to claim citizenship through them, since the 1992 laws (as far as I can tell) were not retroactive.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_n ... itizenship

"According to Italian law, multiple citizenship is explicitly permitted under certain conditions if acquired on or after 15 August 1992. (Prior to that date, Italian citizens with jus soli citizenship elsewhere could keep their dual citizenship perpetually, but Italian citizenship was generally lost if a new citizenship was acquired, and the possibility of its loss through a new citizenship acquisition was subject to some exceptions.) "

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mler
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Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Post by mler » 26 May 2017, 18:44

You are absolutely correct. The 1992 law simply permitted Italian citizens to naturalize and still retain Italian citizenship. (That is another law I wish were retroactive.)

Interestingly, it has only been fairly recent that we have seen so many people applying for citizenship recognition. The reason may be that the 1992 law stressed the dual citizenship option or it may be that expanding social media publicized this as a possibility, or it may be the fluid borders of the EU or (most likely) all three.

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