NEVER ENDING STORY

[BLUEBOY]

FRIENDS PLEASE TRY AND GIVE ME SOME DIRECTION
The situation regarding my claim to Italian citizenship is as follows;

My late father Mario Doria was an Italian citizen at the time of my birth .He lived in South Africa for most of his life but never obtained SA citizenship.

He lived with my South African mother until the day he died but they were never married.

Together they had 6 children, of which I am the youngest. At our birth our parents went to register all of us at the Dept of Home Affairs and therefore we all carry his surname Doria and his name is on our birth certificate.



According to South African law, children born out of wedlock are registered under the surname of the mother but may also be registered under the surname of the natural father,provided the father acknowledges paternity and both mother and father consent to the registration of the child under the fathers surname in presence of a Home Affairs official. This proves that my father has in fact acknowledged paternity for all his children in presence of a Home Affairs official, as this was the only way to get his name on our birth certificates.

When I tried to obtain Italian citizenship, I was told that we would get it if we could prove that our father had never become a South African citizen.

I then got an official statement that my father had been an Italian until he died and never acquired South African Citizenship.

The problem is now that the Consulate General in Johannesburg has rejected our claim based on the fact that my father never registered us as his children at THE ITALIAN CONSULATE. According to them a birth certificate is not enough to prove paternity. A legal recognition in formal format personally done before Italian Authorities is requested for children born out of wedlock,according to them.

The legal requirements for recognition of Italian citizenship claims made by persons born abroad,but whose births were never registered with an Italian consular agency,vary considerably according to particular circumstances.
Lineage of adopted children and children born out outside a marriage,Can be sometimes traced each case is unique.In some instances a father legally recognized paternity of his child born outside a marriage even though he never wedded the childs mother.There are circumstances in which such information can be discovered,But success depends greatly upon which records were been preserved.

I can't believe this is really necessary as my father clearly acknowledged paternity in front of South African officials.

As my father died many years ago registration at the Italian Consulate is no longer an option.

I am trying to find out if there is no other way around this.

Question.
Does this mean an application for Italian Citizenship can be rejected or be approved for Italian Citizenship.

Can I ask for an concrete answer to this question.
Regards Paul

[mler]

Paul, yours is a difficult situation since the Italian consulate within your jurisdiction refuses to recognizes the paternity of your father despite the fact that his name is on your birth certificate (proving that he acknowledged his paternity). I suspect that most consulates would not take this hard-line view; and, in fact, the wording of the directorate seems to apply to you.

Since you live within this consulate's jurisdiction, however, you are forced to apply there; and the only other option I can think of offhand is to apply directly in Italy at the commune of your father. This eliminates the consulate entirely. You will need your father's Italian birth certificate, proof that he never naturalized in SA, and your own apostilled birth certificate. It may also be a good idea to obtain your mom's birth certificate. A good attorney may also help. While I generally think these matters can be handled w/o legal assistance, in your case, it might be necessary.

[elba]

You could also try posting your question to those over at Expats in Italy - they have some people who are pretty hot on Citenzenship and the who's, what's and wherefores of seeking that elusive recognition.
It's worth a try at least....

>EXPATS IN ITALY<

[BLUEBOY]

Thanks
paul

[Gregory Fredericks]

Hi Bluboy! Just wondering how it all went? Were you ever able to succesfully obtain Italian citizenship at all? Your case bare's a striking resemblance to mine and thats why I am now, 7 years after your post, seeking advice....my grandfather was an italian citizen who moved to SOuth Africa in 1958, met my grandmom and had five children together, one of which is my mom, the problem is that my grandfather did not marry my grandmother, although they lived together as a married couple until his death in 1998. The advantage your case had over mine was that you and all your siblings had the same surname as your dad, in my case, my mom, along with her brothers and sisters were all registered under my grandmom's sirname at home affairs. Another issue is that my grandfather, being Italian, was a white man, and my grandmother was a colourd woman, and back in the Apartheid regime in South Africa, interracial marriages were prohibited, so my grandparents couldnt get married even if they wanted to. Please let me know if you were succesfull in your quest? And if yes please give me advice, it will be much appreciated! The consulate general in Johannesburg recently rejected my application on the grounds that "a child born out of wedlock can not obtain citizenship if born before 1975" i find this very strange and I really want to take this further.....please let me know if my case has reasonable ground for Italian citizenship acquisition?