Do all of these records refer to the same person?

Edward Keeports · Post by **Edward Keeports** » 30 Dec 2016, 10:44

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2046915

On the upper left is the March 16, 1739 death of Emmanuele Pirozzo, son of Ludovico and Rosa Pirozzo, both deceased, of Monreale. He was about 70, which makes his birth year c. 1668-69

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2046915

On the upper left is the October 4, 1682 marriage of Emmanuele Natale Pirozzo, son of Ludovico and Rosalia Pirozzo, both deceased, of Monreale.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2046915

Second down on the right is the December 23, 1659 birth of Natale Emmanuele Pirozzo, son of Antonio and Rosalia.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2046915

Here is the same birth listed in the index.

Are these the same person? If they are, he was 79 at death and not 70 as the death record claims.

The fact that the baptism has virtually the same name as the other two records as well as the same mother's name makes me think it is him, but the different father's names confuses me.

Can someone please help me understand what's going on here?

erudita74 · Post by **erudita74** » 30 Dec 2016, 10:59

I think the father's name in the baptism record is Ludovico. The third letter is definitely the letter "d." Also in the next entry, you see the name Antonino. Look at how different the letter A is formed from how the initial letter is formed in the name Ludovico. I think that the name Ludovico was misread when the index was added. and that the records are for the same person.
Erudita

Edward Keeports · Post by **Edward Keeports** » 01 Jan 2017, 09:49

Thank you Erudita!

Although the other records say Ludovico was married to Rosalia, the only Ludovico Pirozzo marriage I could find in Monreale was to Margherita Cavaleri.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2046915

ON LEFT

Do you think this is a mistake made by the record-keeper as well?

erudita74 · Post by **erudita74** » 01 Jan 2017, 16:51

Ed
I honestly don't think that marriage record belongs to your Ludovico. I see the earliest baptism record for children of your Ludovico and Rosalia Pirozzo was Benedetta born Dec 26, 1651. While the record does read that the parents were husband and wife of Monreale, the godparents appear to be from Palermo. The godfather was Onofrio Adornetto, son of dec Pasquale and Rosalia Adornetto. The godmother was Rosalia, Onofrio's wife, daughter of dec Antonino and ? Aguanno of Palermo. So possibly the surnames of the godparents could be a clue for you somehow, and the fact that they were from Palermo. I don't see the Adornetto surname in the marriage indices in Monreale.
Erudita

erudita74 · Post by **erudita74** » 01 Jan 2017, 19:17

Ed
I've solved the mystery. The marriage for the Ludovico Pirozzo to Margherita Cavaleri you found IS yours, as he was a widower when he married Rosalia in 1651. I need to take a break because it's complicated to explain how I found Rosalia's maiden name which led me to their marriage record. His surname for the marriage to Rosalia is also misspelled in the index. I'll be back later with the specifics. I need a break and a cup of coffee!
Erudita

erudita74 · Post by **erudita74** » 01 Jan 2017, 22:07

Here's the death record for Rosalia (Larosa) Pirozzo- Ludovico's wife-

Nov 28, 1670

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2046915

Death of Rosalia Pirozzo, wife of Ludovico Pirozzo, daughter of deceased Biaggio and living Maria Larosa of Monreale. She died at age 50.

Their marriage record in the index with Ludovico’s surname misspelled

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2046915

their marriage record is the last one-bottom left-April 10, 1651

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2046915

Ludovico was the son of deceased Geronimo and living Lauria Pirozzo. He was a widower of Monreale (the name of his former spouse is not given in the record).

Rosalia was the daughter of deceased Biaggio and living Maria La Rosa. She was the widow of deceased Andrea di Luca of Monreale

erudita74 · Post by **erudita74** » 01 Jan 2017, 22:36

Geronimo Pirozzo and Laura Danzello marriage index 11/25/1618

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2046915

the record-Nov 25, 1618

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2046915

Geronimo Pirozzo was the son of living Alessandro and deceased Margarita Pirozzo. Lauria Danzello was the daughter of Ludovico and Candia Danzello of Monreale

erudita74 · Post by **erudita74** » 02 Jan 2017, 00:30

Ludovico Pirozzo death record-May 28, 1874-at about age 50
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2046915

marriage of Ludovico Danzello and Candia Galvano Sept 2, 1591-index (parents of Lauria Danzello)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2046915

Edward Keeports · Post by **Edward Keeports** » 02 Jan 2017, 01:34

Thank you Erudita!!!

I found the April 29, 1593 marriage of Alessandro and Margherita Pirozzo, but I can't read it.

INDEX:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2046915

RECORD SECOND DOWN ON RIGHT:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2046915

Edward Keeports · Post by **Edward Keeports** » 02 Jan 2017, 10:01

erudita74 wrote: marriage of Ludovico Danzello and Candia Galvano Sept 2, 1591-index (parents of Lauria Danzello)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2046915

The actual record is the second one down on the right:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2046915

Ludovico's parents are dead and Candia's are living, but I can't decipher their names

Edward Keeports · Post by **Edward Keeports** » 02 Jan 2017, 10:11

UPPER RIGHT

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2046915

January 18, 1628 (I think)

Death of Alessandro Pirozzo, age c. 60, son of deceased (record is too damaged to read) of Monreale

Looking closer at his marriage record, it appears his mother was named Eleonora, although I can't decipher the other 3 parental names in the record. The end of the mother's name in the death record seems to read "no_a", which makes me think this is the right person.

erudita74 · Post by **erudita74** » 02 Jan 2017, 15:00

Edward Keeports wrote:Thank you Erudita!!!

I found the April 29, 1593 marriage of Alessandro and Margherita Pirozzo, but I can't read it.

INDEX:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2046915

RECORD SECOND DOWN ON RIGHT:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2046915

Margarita was the daughter of deceased Pietro and living Brigida Caminiti of Monreale. Alessandro was the son of ? (possibly an abbreviation for Salvatore, but I have to give this more thought) and deceased Leonora Pirozzo of the land of Carini.*

* for you info, there is online a website called The Carini Exchange. There are some early extracted church records there, but not for your Pirozzo. However, there is a Pilozzo listed in one of the databases, and also on this website, there is info that Pilozzo was changed to Pirrozzo and also that there were variants such as Pilozo, Pirozio, and Pirozzu.

http://www.cariniexchange.com/

erudita74 · Post by **erudita74** » 02 Jan 2017, 15:18

Edward Keeports wrote:UPPER RIGHT

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2046915

January 18, 1628 (I think)

Death of Alessandro Pirozzo, age c. 60, son of deceased (record is too damaged to read) of Monreale

Looking closer at his marriage record, it appears his mother was named Eleonora, although I can't decipher the other 3 parental names in the record. The end of the mother's name in the death record seems to read "no_a", which makes me think this is the right person.

You have the date correct. Both parents were deceased but the names can't be read on this record. He was about age 60 and the spouse of Vincenza Viola. I believe there is an abbreviation after her name for Palermo.

erudita74 · Post by **erudita74** » 02 Jan 2017, 15:32

Edward Keeports wrote:
erudita74 wrote: marriage of Ludovico Danzello and Candia Galvano Sept 2, 1591-index (parents of Lauria Danzello)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2046915
The actual record is the second one down on the right:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2046915

Ludovico's parents are dead and Candia's are living, but I can't decipher their names

Ludovico Danzello was the son of dec Paolo and dec Lauria Danzello. Candia was the daughter of Angelo and Francesca Galvano in the city of ? (the Latin abbreviation looks like Mozle to me. I have no idea what that is. I only see a city called Moselle in France).

Here's the link to the index for Paolo Danzello and Laura Siragusa's marriage record dated April 25, 1566.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2046915

erudita74 · Post by **erudita74** » 02 Jan 2017, 16:45

the marriage record from April 25, 1566; no. 3 right page

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2046915

Laura Siragusa was the daughter of Andrea and ? Siragusa (I can't read her mother's name).

Paolo, the son of ? I can't read his parents' names at all.

Erudita

Do all of these records refer to the same person?

Do all of these records refer to the same person?

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Re: Do all of these records refer to the same person?

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Re: Do all of these records refer to the same person?

Re: Do all of these records refer to the same person?

Re: Do all of these records refer to the same person?

Re: Do all of these records refer to the same person?

Re: Do all of these records refer to the same person?

Re: Do all of these records refer to the same person?