Attached is a marriage document with unusual format. I am trying to understand what is different about it? It looks like there is a Genealogy included in this single document. Are there vows included? I know that the translators are very busy. This document is very long
I think I know the bride and Groom and their parents.
Ignazio Piazza m. Pietra Marrone
Grooms parents Antonino Piazza and Anna Maria Chiarello
Brides Parents Antonino Marrone and Giuseppa Scalisi
The original document is attached and located at :
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=2046915
Unusual Marriage Record for Ignazio Piazza and Pietra Marrone - Pleasee provide translation help.
Re: Unusual Marriage Record for Ignazio Piazza and Pietra Marrone - Pleasee provide translation help.
As a slightly different question, can the translators confirm the translation of the item 1 lower left side as
Antonino Son of Joseph Scalisi and Catherina Vetrano - daughter of Maria lo Jacono ex lib
18 Jan 1756
What is the meaning of ex lib
Antonino Son of Joseph Scalisi and Catherina Vetrano - daughter of Maria lo Jacono ex lib
18 Jan 1756
What is the meaning of ex lib
Re: Unusual Marriage Record for Ignazio Piazza and Pietra Marrone - Pleasee provide translation help.
I can't access family search at the moment due to heavy volume and only have limited time right now to work on this anyway.
ex lib means "from the book"
ex lib conj (from the book of marriages); ex lib bapt (from the book of baptisms)
Early this morning, I was able to determine what some of the info means. There's a lot of work that needs to be done to accurately sort through all of the info in this record, but you have literally hit a gold mine.
On Sept 15, 1838, when Ignazio Piazza married Pietra Marrone, his mother, Anna Maria Chiarello, was already deceased. Both Ignazio and Pietra had never before been married. I see something in their marriage record about bloodlines, but I'm not exactly sure what the record is saying with respect to that. Dispensations were required if the couple to be married was related to each other in closer than the 4th degree. I am hoping this may become clearer as we sort through all of the info on the page.
Then there is info about Giuseppa Lombardo. She was the paternal grandmother of Ignazio Piazza who married in 1838, or the mother of this Ignazio Piazza's father, Antonino Piazza. Giuseppa had been married twice. Her first husband was named Biagio Scalisi. Her second husband was Ignazio Piazza, the paternal grandfather of the 1838 groom, also named Ignazio Piazza. Giuseppa Lombardo died on April 2, 1821 and, at the time of her death, was the wife of her second husband, Ignazio Piazza, father of Antonino Piazza, or paternal grandfather of the groom Ignazio Piazza in the 1838 marriage record.
Sept 14, 1810 is the date of the marriage of Antonino Piazza and Anna Maria Chiarello. I have located this marriage record, as well as, the death record of Giuseppa Lombardo.
The 1838 groom Ignazio Piazza was baptized on Nov 26, 1819. I have located his baptism record. And I have also located the baptism record of Pieta Marrone, his bride, who was baptized on Oct 9, 1820. Hopefully I will get all of these links to you sometime over the weekend, assuming I have more time to work on this then
This is all I can do for tonight.
Erudita
ex lib means "from the book"
ex lib conj (from the book of marriages); ex lib bapt (from the book of baptisms)
Early this morning, I was able to determine what some of the info means. There's a lot of work that needs to be done to accurately sort through all of the info in this record, but you have literally hit a gold mine.
On Sept 15, 1838, when Ignazio Piazza married Pietra Marrone, his mother, Anna Maria Chiarello, was already deceased. Both Ignazio and Pietra had never before been married. I see something in their marriage record about bloodlines, but I'm not exactly sure what the record is saying with respect to that. Dispensations were required if the couple to be married was related to each other in closer than the 4th degree. I am hoping this may become clearer as we sort through all of the info on the page.
Then there is info about Giuseppa Lombardo. She was the paternal grandmother of Ignazio Piazza who married in 1838, or the mother of this Ignazio Piazza's father, Antonino Piazza. Giuseppa had been married twice. Her first husband was named Biagio Scalisi. Her second husband was Ignazio Piazza, the paternal grandfather of the 1838 groom, also named Ignazio Piazza. Giuseppa Lombardo died on April 2, 1821 and, at the time of her death, was the wife of her second husband, Ignazio Piazza, father of Antonino Piazza, or paternal grandfather of the groom Ignazio Piazza in the 1838 marriage record.
Sept 14, 1810 is the date of the marriage of Antonino Piazza and Anna Maria Chiarello. I have located this marriage record, as well as, the death record of Giuseppa Lombardo.
The 1838 groom Ignazio Piazza was baptized on Nov 26, 1819. I have located his baptism record. And I have also located the baptism record of Pieta Marrone, his bride, who was baptized on Oct 9, 1820. Hopefully I will get all of these links to you sometime over the weekend, assuming I have more time to work on this then
This is all I can do for tonight.
Erudita
Re: Unusual Marriage Record for Ignazio Piazza and Pietra Marrone - Pleasee provide translation help.
Thanks Erudita. You are the best. Gold mine indeed..
No need to send the links for the baptisms or any more information. I can go directly to them based on the dates alone. I have a lot of experience in these records now. Your explanation makes sense.
I have been working the marriage and baptism records for the full Sicilian family which is 256 people going back 8 generations from my mother. All of them are from Bisacquino These two people Ignazio Piazza and Pietra Marrone have one set of the same great great grandparents, so 4 generations back, intersecting at the marriage of Guiseppe Scalisi and Catherina Vetrano and also an interesection in the Lombardo family.
So your explanation of the clerical work makes complete sense to demonstrate that they were not too closely related.
The document also helps me to confirm the genealogy significantly (Gold Mine). Once again, thanks for coaching me on the Italian, I did find a website that I will use more to help with translations, but the cursive writing is difficult as I learn.
No need to send the links for the baptisms or any more information. I can go directly to them based on the dates alone. I have a lot of experience in these records now. Your explanation makes sense.
I have been working the marriage and baptism records for the full Sicilian family which is 256 people going back 8 generations from my mother. All of them are from Bisacquino These two people Ignazio Piazza and Pietra Marrone have one set of the same great great grandparents, so 4 generations back, intersecting at the marriage of Guiseppe Scalisi and Catherina Vetrano and also an interesection in the Lombardo family.
So your explanation of the clerical work makes complete sense to demonstrate that they were not too closely related.
The document also helps me to confirm the genealogy significantly (Gold Mine). Once again, thanks for coaching me on the Italian, I did find a website that I will use more to help with translations, but the cursive writing is difficult as I learn.
Re: Unusual Marriage Record for Ignazio Piazza and Pietra Marrone - Pleasee provide translation help.
This record is in Latin
In the right column, under the two marriages of Giuseppa Lombardo
#1 marriage of Giusppe Scalisi and Rosaria Scalisi on June 11, 1797 (image 194 of 411)-his father-deceased Biagio; mother Giuseppa Lombardo living; Rosaria's father, Vincenzo Scalisi; mother Francesca Accurso
#2 is the marriage of Giuseppa Scalisi and Antonino Marrone on May 24, 1819 (image 316 of 555). His father Vincenzo Marrone was deceased; his mother Pietra Cicchirillo living
Giuseppa Scalisi's parents deceased Giuseppe Scalisi and living Rosaria Scalisi
In the right column, under the two marriages of Giuseppa Lombardo
#1 marriage of Giusppe Scalisi and Rosaria Scalisi on June 11, 1797 (image 194 of 411)-his father-deceased Biagio; mother Giuseppa Lombardo living; Rosaria's father, Vincenzo Scalisi; mother Francesca Accurso
#2 is the marriage of Giuseppa Scalisi and Antonino Marrone on May 24, 1819 (image 316 of 555). His father Vincenzo Marrone was deceased; his mother Pietra Cicchirillo living
Giuseppa Scalisi's parents deceased Giuseppe Scalisi and living Rosaria Scalisi
Re: Unusual Marriage Record for Ignazio Piazza and Pietra Marrone - Pleasee provide translation help.
Thanks Erudita. Great work as always
Re: Unusual Marriage Record for Ignazio Piazza and Pietra Marrone - Pleasee provide translation help.
I think I determined that Ignazio Piazza and Pietra Marrone were 3rd cousins and half cousins once removed.
Re: Unusual Marriage Record for Ignazio Piazza and Pietra Marrone - Pleasee provide translation help.
I'm hoping you are inputting the data into a computerized family tree program that will calculate all of the relationships for you.
The bottom section for Giuseppe Scalisi and Caterina Vetrano
Left column
#1 Antonino (Scalici), son of Giuseppe Scalici and Caterina Vetrano; husband of Maria lo Iacono-from the book of marriages, Jan 18, 1786; record is image 38 of 441; in the actual record, Maria's parents are given as Vito and Ursula Iacono (note there is no "lo" preceding Iacono in this record); after Ursula's name in the record, it reads "alias Verdina"-also known as Verdina
2. Caterina (Scalici) the daughter of Antonino Scalici and Maria lo Iacono, wife of Gregorio Chiarello, from the book of marriages, Feb 26, 1786 (image 224 of 362); in actual marriage record: Maria's surname is given as Verdina and not lo Iacono or Iacono; Gregorio Chiarello is the widower of deceased Antonia Manzella; Gregorio was the son of Vincenzo Chiarello and Castrenza La Russa
#3 and #4 are the marriage dates for Anna Maria Chiarello and Antonino Piazza, and the baptism date for Ignazio Piazza, their son, which I previously gave you. The only error in this list appears to be for the marriage. It looks like the date given is Sept 10, 1810, but we already know the correct day was the 14th. The baptism date for Ignazio is Nov 26, 1819, which we know is correct.
Right Column
#1 Biagio (Scalici), son of Giuseppe Scalici and Caterina Vetrano-husband of Giuseppa Lombardo, marriage Sept 8, 1765 (record is image 187 of 441); in the record, parents of Giuseppa Lombardo -Felice Lombardo and Maddalena Cicio
# 2-Giuseppe (Scalici) son of Biagio Scalici and Giuseppa Lombardo- husband of Rosaria Scalici-marriage June 11, 1797 (194 of 411-previously given to you; his father Biagio deceased at time of the marriage
#3 Giuseppa (Scalici) daughter of Giuseppe Scalici and Rosaria Scalici, wife of Antonino Marrone -m. May 24, 1819 (image 316 of 555)-info previously given to you
#4 Pietra Marrone, the bride, daughter of Antonino Marrone and Giuseppa Scalici-baptism Oct 9, 1820 (149 of 221)-info previously given to you.
This ends all of the genealogy data in the record.
The bottom section for Giuseppe Scalisi and Caterina Vetrano
Left column
#1 Antonino (Scalici), son of Giuseppe Scalici and Caterina Vetrano; husband of Maria lo Iacono-from the book of marriages, Jan 18, 1786; record is image 38 of 441; in the actual record, Maria's parents are given as Vito and Ursula Iacono (note there is no "lo" preceding Iacono in this record); after Ursula's name in the record, it reads "alias Verdina"-also known as Verdina
2. Caterina (Scalici) the daughter of Antonino Scalici and Maria lo Iacono, wife of Gregorio Chiarello, from the book of marriages, Feb 26, 1786 (image 224 of 362); in actual marriage record: Maria's surname is given as Verdina and not lo Iacono or Iacono; Gregorio Chiarello is the widower of deceased Antonia Manzella; Gregorio was the son of Vincenzo Chiarello and Castrenza La Russa
#3 and #4 are the marriage dates for Anna Maria Chiarello and Antonino Piazza, and the baptism date for Ignazio Piazza, their son, which I previously gave you. The only error in this list appears to be for the marriage. It looks like the date given is Sept 10, 1810, but we already know the correct day was the 14th. The baptism date for Ignazio is Nov 26, 1819, which we know is correct.
Right Column
#1 Biagio (Scalici), son of Giuseppe Scalici and Caterina Vetrano-husband of Giuseppa Lombardo, marriage Sept 8, 1765 (record is image 187 of 441); in the record, parents of Giuseppa Lombardo -Felice Lombardo and Maddalena Cicio
# 2-Giuseppe (Scalici) son of Biagio Scalici and Giuseppa Lombardo- husband of Rosaria Scalici-marriage June 11, 1797 (194 of 411-previously given to you; his father Biagio deceased at time of the marriage
#3 Giuseppa (Scalici) daughter of Giuseppe Scalici and Rosaria Scalici, wife of Antonino Marrone -m. May 24, 1819 (image 316 of 555)-info previously given to you
#4 Pietra Marrone, the bride, daughter of Antonino Marrone and Giuseppa Scalici-baptism Oct 9, 1820 (149 of 221)-info previously given to you.
This ends all of the genealogy data in the record.
Re: Unusual Marriage Record for Ignazio Piazza and Pietra Marrone - Pleasee provide translation help.
to finish off the document on the right page
Banns were on the 2nd, 4th, and 8th of Sept 1838 and resulted in no detection of legitimate impediments to the marriage. They were married by Don* (this is a title) Gaspare Piazza after he verbally asked for their mutual consent to marry each other. Witnesses were Don* Antonio Marino and Don* Bernardo Caronna.
Quite frankly, in over 25 years of doing this kind of research, I have never seen a Church marriage record like this one, which traced the lineage of the prospective spouses, particularly when they were blood relatives to each other on some generation level. You really have hit the jackpot with this one record.
Erudita
Banns were on the 2nd, 4th, and 8th of Sept 1838 and resulted in no detection of legitimate impediments to the marriage. They were married by Don* (this is a title) Gaspare Piazza after he verbally asked for their mutual consent to marry each other. Witnesses were Don* Antonio Marino and Don* Bernardo Caronna.
Quite frankly, in over 25 years of doing this kind of research, I have never seen a Church marriage record like this one, which traced the lineage of the prospective spouses, particularly when they were blood relatives to each other on some generation level. You really have hit the jackpot with this one record.
Erudita
