Ottolenghi Family Search

Merle · Post by **Merle** » 25 Jan 2004, 07:29

Hello. I am searching for descendants of the Ottolenghi families from Livorno, Italy.
Cheers Merle

suanj · Post by **suanj** » 25 Jan 2004, 10:48

Merle wrote:Hello. I am searching for descendants of the Ottolenghi families from Livorno, Italy.
Cheers Merle

Hi: in all Livorno town are 4 Ottolenghi families http://www.paginebianche.it/pb/cerca?bt ... no&x=0&y=0
Regards, suanj

ptimber · Post by **ptimber** » 25 Jan 2004, 15:10

Merle how far back do you want to go???? Please be specific since you can go back to the early 1800's. Also are you sure the fam,ily come from ther city of Livorno and not some small town or village ion the proivince of Livorno?? Peter

suanj · Post by **suanj** » 25 Jan 2004, 15:13

Hi Peter, Ottolenghi is very important and noble surname, are in Livorno and in others italian towns (not in village)...regards, suanj

ptimber · Post by **ptimber** » 25 Jan 2004, 15:21

I use the phrase towns and villages to convey the concept of province which is not clearly understood in some parts of the world. When people in the USA of italian descent say they come from Livorno or Bari or Napoli, they USUally mean they come from a small town in thje p;rovince of these provincial cap;itals. That is why I try to make clear what is meant by provincee using the words town and village. Peter

suanj · Post by **suanj** » 25 Jan 2004, 15:32

yes Peter: I had understood, but I had already found others records on web http://www.ottolenghi.org/ and sure town is Livorno..Regards, and "buona domenica", suanj

ptimber · Post by **ptimber** » 25 Jan 2004, 18:42

I know its Livorno with only one village thanks to you but I wanted her to reassure that it was the city of Livorno. E una buona ma fredississimo griorno e sta mattina era 10 grado F nel garage nel edifizio. E un buon giorno di mettersi indietro una finestrina col sole entrando sulla faccia!! Peter

Merle · Post by **Merle** » 26 Jan 2004, 05:46

Hi Peter and Suanj, Yes Livorno! As far as we can tell. Are earliest record is of Menahem (or Emanuel) Ottolenghi who married Judica De Valletro in Livorno in 1719. I guess we can estimate his birth at about 1698 = or - . We also have all the births for their children. I did have the Ketubah (marriage cert) translated and Menahems Ottolenghi's father is named Meyer (Meir) Ottolenghi. The birth register was checked at the Livorno Archives & the marriage register for Menahems marriage in 1719 by a family member who was visiting Livorno from overseas. Menahems son David Ottolenghi born in 1734 also married in Livorno about 1762, unfortunately it seems the marriage register for this time frame is misplaced so we have no wifes name for him.
I would be interested to know if there are any records in Livorno for Meyer (Meir) Ottolenghi. I guess we could estimate he married between 1680-1698. I don't know if marriage records go back this far.
We are decendants of David Ottolenghi 1734 who travelled to London, England in 1776.
I would still like to make contact with anyone who decends from any Livonese Ottolenghi's. I am fully aware the Ottolenghi name is more wide spread in other parts of Italy than in Livorno, unfortunately we are unsure of where our Ottolenghi's lived prior to Livorno. I am familer with the Ottolenghi website and i have a link to it from my website which is http://www.geocities.com/ottolangui2002
I'm interested to hear any thoughts on the origin of the Ottolenghi family.
Cheers Merle

suanj · Post by **suanj** » 26 Jan 2004, 06:15

Hi Merle:
-are traces of Ottolenghi family around XI century in Tuscany:
The "Marchesi"(noble title) Ottolenghi, owners of those lands founded the town of Massa Carrara (Tuscany),
more:
- from XV/XIX century are documents of this family Ottolenghi in State's Archive of Piacenza(Emilia Romagna region)" (ARCHIVIO DI STATO DI PIACENZA - Ottolenghi , bb. e regg. 100 ca, 1500-sec. XIX-Volume III, N-R, Partizione III, Strutturazione Raccolte e Miscellanee)
-in this book:
" MOSCATI, Gianfranco - Elenco delle 600 fotocopie a colori delle ketuboth (contratti matrimoniali ebraici) miniati italiani (secc. XVIÂ°-XXÂ°)=Liste des 600 photocopies en couleur des Ketoubot (contrats de mariage juifs) italiens (XVIÃ¨-XXÃ¨ s.)
Napoli : G. Moscati, 1999 , Dos. non pag. , In testa al front.: Collezione privata di Gianfranco Moscati , ARA-HEB-ITA " (are all listed jew marriage from XVI century to XX century also Ottolenghi marriage)
-in this book:
"FILIPPINI, Jean Pierre, [1947-....] - Il porto di Livorno e la Toscana (1676-1814). Vol. 1 Napoli: Edizioni Scientifiche Italiane, 1998 , Vol. 1, 280 p., 23,5 cm (Nuove ricerche di storia; 18) , ISBN 88-8114-445-x , Fonti e bibliogr. , ITA " on Livorno port are Ottolenghi family merchants in Livorno..
-in this book:
" PISA, Franco TOAFF, Ariel, (a cura di) ^bCOLLEGIO RABBINICO ITALIANO - Parnassim, le grandi famiglie ebraiche italiane dal secolo XI al XIX ,In: Annuario di studi ebraici . Studi sull'ebraismo presentati da Elio Toaff -Roma: Carucci editore, 1984 , 1980-1984, vol. X, p. 291-491, 8 pl. h.t. c., 6 pl. h.t. n.et b. de blasons , ISBN 88-85027-88-1 , Bibliogr. opera di carattere generale e regionale p. 463-491 , ITA",are history from XI century to XIX of Jew family , also Ottolenghi-Livorno...

This book are very interesting for your search..regards, suanj

Merle · Post by **Merle** » 26 Jan 2004, 14:49

Hi Suanj, Thankyou so much for this info & book references. One of us has the book by Toaff & i do believe there is mention of a Joseph Ottolenghi who travelled to London from Livorno. However what it doesn't say in the book is that this Joseph Ottolenghi was born in Casale, to parents Angelo Ottolengo & Dolce Treves. Even though it might be possible that this family have a link to ours we haven't yet found a connection. I'll certainly hunt out those other books & have a read.
I didn't know that the Ottolenghi had a noble title! Why would this be? What is meant by that? I have never heard of the 'Marchesi Ottolenghi'. This is certainly very interesting.
There are quite a few theorys on where the Ottolenghi originated from. Some believe Germany while others believe Spain or Portugal.

Cheers Merle

suanj · Post by **suanj** » 26 Jan 2004, 15:46

Merle wrote:Hi Suanj, Thankyou so much for this info & book references. One of us has the book by Toaff & i do believe there is mention of a Joseph Ottolenghi who travelled to London from Livorno. However what it doesn't say in the book is that this Joseph Ottolenghi was born in Casale, to parents Angelo Ottolengo & Dolce Treves. Even though it might be possible that this family have a link to ours we haven't yet found a connection. I'll certainly hunt out those other books & have a read.
I didn't know that the Ottolenghi had a noble title! Why would this be? What is meant by that? I have never heard of the 'Marchesi Ottolenghi'. This is certainly very interesting.
There are quite a few theorys on where the Ottolenghi originated from. Some believe Germany while others believe Spain or Portugal.

Cheers Merle

Hi Cheers: The Ottolenghi family, in Italian History and in the time, had various nobles title..sure more ancient are title "Marchesi", to this website is spoken of Marchesi Ottolenghi.. http://digilander.libero.it/mjkan3/massa.html
but this new is from to verify...
To this website, you insert Ottolenghi surname and you have many noble info on this surname: http://www.sgmprogetti.it/araldica/cerca.asp

Probable this surname are of Germany origin, "Otto" word are tipically name germany many used, but origin word are OTTONE(diminutive Otto) , it derives from ancient Saxonia(Germany-Poland area) name " Athad", latinized in Othonem and it means "R-he who possesses, owner", more are sure traces of this name with Saint Ottone von Mistelbach, Christian converter of Pomerania(Germany), living beetwen 1060 an 1139 ....
"Lenghi probable are an corruption of Langhe" means lands..more Langhe are territory of Asti area(Piemonte)where are historical presence of Ottolenghi surname.. Regards, suanj

Merle · Post by **Merle** » 27 Jan 2004, 13:53

Dear Suanj, Thankyou for these website references & your information about the Ottolenghi origin. Much appreciated & very interesting.
Cheers Merle

amomarand · Post by **amomarand** » 23 May 2011, 05:15

Dear Merle:
My name is Andrew (Andrea) Marcello Ottolenghi. I was born in Milano but my family origins are from Torino and Acqui in Piemonte. I presently live in Vancouver, BC, Canada.
I was very surprised with the claim that there were Ottolenghi Marchesi in the XI century because my family´s lore claims that the first Ottolenghi in Italy was a José de Otolengo that set up a money exchange "bank" in Genova around 1492 (the year the Jews and Arabs were expelled from Spain).
I found references of Jacomo, Lucha and Pagnio de Otolengo who sold hay in Bergamo in 1512. They were referred as "Spaniards". I also found a reference where a Joseph Levi (Von) Otolengo (a convert that changed is name to Santa Maria) was a witness to a sepahrdic wedding in Germany in the early 1500's - does this mean that many of the sephardic Jews went to Germany after the 1492 expulsion and that some then moved to Italy?
I find these references in contradiction of the theory that the names Ottolenghi, Otolengui,Otolengo or Langley are derived from the city of Ettingen in Germany and that they are of Ashkenazi origin. I realize that Joseph Ottolengo (an Ashkenazy rabbi) moved to Cremona in the XV century where he was allowed to publish Hebrew books.
Two persons told me that in Acqui (Now Acqui Terme) there is a monument to my great-grandfather Bellom Ottolenghi. Also in Acqui Terme there are three instances where the name Jona Ottolenghi (I don't know if he was related to Bellom) is used: 1)One of the main Streets, 2) an Art Academy, and 3)a retirement house.
I wonder if my family´s lore that the name Ottolenghi derives from a place in Spain called Otolengo has some foundation? (Sorry, my father has been dead 46 years so I can't get any evidence from him)
Best regards, Andrew

Merle · Post by **Merle** » 23 May 2011, 13:54

Hi Andrew, Thanks for your information and thoughts on the origin of the Ottolenghi family. Like you I doubt that the family originated in Germany and totally agree that some may have gone there after the Expulsion in 1492. Definately our family of Ottolenghi were Sephardic and had Portuguese naming patterns. It was passed down in many different family lines that our family are portuguese originating in Portugal possibley moving to Spain before the inquisition. At this point we have discovered that our earliest descendant is Meir/Meyer Ottolenghi his place of origin unknown. His son Menachem (Emmanuel) Ottolenghi married in Livorno, Italy in 1719, however we find no birth for him in Livorno. I think that Meir/Meyer must have travelled to Livorno with his family from another part of Italy.
My website is www.ottolangui.com
Cheers Merle

amomarand · Post by **amomarand** » 27 May 2011, 02:47

Hi Merle:
It's interesting that you have traced your Portuguese Sephardi origins. It also explains the spelling of your surname which ends in GUI as compared to the Italian GHI. (I lived many years in Latinamerica and my name was often spelled OTTOLENGUI).
Now I would like to propose a new theory about our genealogy, not based on documentes, but on heresay from my deceased father. My father claimed that there was a seal for the family Ottolenghi (different from that granted to the Asti family in the early 1800´s which incluede General Giuseppe Ottolenghi) which consisted of a devil with eight (OTTO) tongues (LENGHI-closer to the piemontese pronounciation of LINGUE).
Any comments?
Andrew Ottolenghi

I just found a reference to a castle OTOLENGO near Brescia that was captued by the Venetians in 1554. I can´t see how this would change my opinion as to the Iberian origin

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