Essgee,
I am so curious as to how you know my relatives were coming to visit certain relatives here in New Jersey.
I have access the the Ellis Island ship records and the 1910 census.
Only Thing I can see or make out on these records is their names.
In the 1910 census, I see a name just under my Great Grandfather Pasquale's name. I see Susan there and marked as wife. This does not belong there does it?
Also you mention a Carmine Chiocchi. Would you know what year he came to the america's and who his father is. I am trying to see where the link here fits.
Oh, and you are so correct about the dates not being exact. My cousin Vincenzo it shows him 19,20 and another age someplace else.
And just for fun heres a question for you.
Was the ship rides that cheap to pay for in those days. I find it funny thats all my relatives did was travel back and forth to Italy like it was a Sunday drive down the shore or something LOL.
Thanks again my dear friend
Kennethchiocchi
Essgee Final Question I hope
-
kennethchiocchi
- Newbie
- Posts: 14
- Joined: 22 Mar 2004, 00:00
Essgee Final Question I hope
Seeking my long lost family, one day Ill find out who is who
Hi Kenneth.........
Well, interesting questions to say the least!
Ok, here goes:
1. When you look at the records at Ellis Island, you have to go beyond the simple passenger records...you have to look at the original passenger manifest. At this period of time, passengers were the "main" cargo and had to be listed on a manifest indicating who, what, where, when, etc.
If you click on a name at Ellis Island, it takes you to a page that is the passenger listing...it contains information that was pretty much standard for all passengers arriving in the US for 50 or more years...name, age, sex, marital status, country of origin, destination, what part of ship they traveled in.
This is contained in the box in the middle of the page; but there is a little blue box that states "view the original passenger manifest right above the bigger box. Click on this box and it will take you to the original passenger manifest. This has all the information. Prior to 1906 it contained much the same information contained on the passenger listing. But after the laws changed in 1906, it became 2 pages long and included the same information as above as well as exact location where they had resided, where they were born, who they were going to meet in America, who paid their passage, height, color of hair, eyes, etc... So this has all the info you need.
When I first started, I never realized that the passenger listing was just the bare bones of what was available. Then I clicked on the box and a whole world opened up...I was amazed! Sometimes the passenger list is all they have....the original is destroyed or whatever...it happens. Sometimes the link to the page is corrupted. But for the most part, it is the meat of the information about relatives coming to America.
2. The listing of Susan in the 1910 census...Susan is the most used named for the translation of Assunta, the Italian name, to its American form. So yes, it does belong there....often when listed, they used the Americanized names or translations of the names...hence Generosa to Joseph...or Giuseppe to Joseph most often, Giovanni to John, Pasquale to Patrick or Pat, etc.
The use of the name Susan actually confirms that the passenger manifest showing Assunta Real as his wife is the actual manifest for your Pasquale...eliminates the doubts it could be another Pasquale.
3. The ages are often not just right. Sometimes, like in the census, someone who was reporting the info...a child possibly, a second wife, or the landlady...well they may have not known. We find that odd, but it happened all the time.
In the records of Italy, often these people would be a witness on records of other people. The ages are always listed. And if you look at a ten year period, the person's age sometimes never changes over that period of time, or he gets a couple of years older...sometimes younger in that same period!!! Hard to follow...so don't take age as a definate..just an approximation.
My gggrandfather was buried in the US and his given age was 10 years less then his actual age. His sons didn't know how old he was and reported the wrong age for the death record. But when I got the birth records, the marriage records, the records for the birth of his children...well, turns out he was older then listed. I didn't know he ever came to the US and would have ignored the listing because of the age...but further checking indicated who he was...so don't become fixated on age.
Also, for example, a man is born in December of 1880. In January of 1900 he was already listed at age twenty even though he would not be that age until December... it was the age he would be sometime during that year. So in the Italian records, they stated he was 20 in July, for example, when here we would say he was just 19 in America. This means that when they got to the US, where we are precise, the ages are often not exactly as we assume them to be.
4. Generoso .."Jimmy" in the 1910 census is in Union County, Kenilworth Boro, NJ, ED 108, page 2A. Again, his passgenger record is at Ellis Island. That he is Assunta's father is speculation on my part. It could be totally wrong, so bear that in mind. However, a lead that should be followed just in case it bears fruit.
5. A lot of Italians went back and forth. About $25.00 for a round trip. Had to pay for a round trip because if they could not enter the country, they were deported and sent back to Italy. So everyone paid for a round trip just in case. If they never returned, the money was lost.
Many Italians came with no intention of ever staying in the US. They came to make money. Every 3 years or so, they would return home and visit wives and children, then come back to America to work. Eventually, they had enough money to send for their family to come here...and many did. But we tend to think everyone who came wanted to stay and that was not true. Many returned to Italy permanently.
Well. I hope this explains things...too much depth, I know, but hopefully I was clear enough so you know what I mean.
Glad to help any time...don't hesitate to ask!
Well, interesting questions to say the least!
Ok, here goes:
1. When you look at the records at Ellis Island, you have to go beyond the simple passenger records...you have to look at the original passenger manifest. At this period of time, passengers were the "main" cargo and had to be listed on a manifest indicating who, what, where, when, etc.
If you click on a name at Ellis Island, it takes you to a page that is the passenger listing...it contains information that was pretty much standard for all passengers arriving in the US for 50 or more years...name, age, sex, marital status, country of origin, destination, what part of ship they traveled in.
This is contained in the box in the middle of the page; but there is a little blue box that states "view the original passenger manifest right above the bigger box. Click on this box and it will take you to the original passenger manifest. This has all the information. Prior to 1906 it contained much the same information contained on the passenger listing. But after the laws changed in 1906, it became 2 pages long and included the same information as above as well as exact location where they had resided, where they were born, who they were going to meet in America, who paid their passage, height, color of hair, eyes, etc... So this has all the info you need.
When I first started, I never realized that the passenger listing was just the bare bones of what was available. Then I clicked on the box and a whole world opened up...I was amazed! Sometimes the passenger list is all they have....the original is destroyed or whatever...it happens. Sometimes the link to the page is corrupted. But for the most part, it is the meat of the information about relatives coming to America.
2. The listing of Susan in the 1910 census...Susan is the most used named for the translation of Assunta, the Italian name, to its American form. So yes, it does belong there....often when listed, they used the Americanized names or translations of the names...hence Generosa to Joseph...or Giuseppe to Joseph most often, Giovanni to John, Pasquale to Patrick or Pat, etc.
The use of the name Susan actually confirms that the passenger manifest showing Assunta Real as his wife is the actual manifest for your Pasquale...eliminates the doubts it could be another Pasquale.
3. The ages are often not just right. Sometimes, like in the census, someone who was reporting the info...a child possibly, a second wife, or the landlady...well they may have not known. We find that odd, but it happened all the time.
In the records of Italy, often these people would be a witness on records of other people. The ages are always listed. And if you look at a ten year period, the person's age sometimes never changes over that period of time, or he gets a couple of years older...sometimes younger in that same period!!! Hard to follow...so don't take age as a definate..just an approximation.
My gggrandfather was buried in the US and his given age was 10 years less then his actual age. His sons didn't know how old he was and reported the wrong age for the death record. But when I got the birth records, the marriage records, the records for the birth of his children...well, turns out he was older then listed. I didn't know he ever came to the US and would have ignored the listing because of the age...but further checking indicated who he was...so don't become fixated on age.
Also, for example, a man is born in December of 1880. In January of 1900 he was already listed at age twenty even though he would not be that age until December... it was the age he would be sometime during that year. So in the Italian records, they stated he was 20 in July, for example, when here we would say he was just 19 in America. This means that when they got to the US, where we are precise, the ages are often not exactly as we assume them to be.
4. Generoso .."Jimmy" in the 1910 census is in Union County, Kenilworth Boro, NJ, ED 108, page 2A. Again, his passgenger record is at Ellis Island. That he is Assunta's father is speculation on my part. It could be totally wrong, so bear that in mind. However, a lead that should be followed just in case it bears fruit.
5. A lot of Italians went back and forth. About $25.00 for a round trip. Had to pay for a round trip because if they could not enter the country, they were deported and sent back to Italy. So everyone paid for a round trip just in case. If they never returned, the money was lost.
Many Italians came with no intention of ever staying in the US. They came to make money. Every 3 years or so, they would return home and visit wives and children, then come back to America to work. Eventually, they had enough money to send for their family to come here...and many did. But we tend to think everyone who came wanted to stay and that was not true. Many returned to Italy permanently.
Well. I hope this explains things...too much depth, I know, but hopefully I was clear enough so you know what I mean.
Glad to help any time...don't hesitate to ask!
final question
esgee
i just read your answer to kenneth...very informative..thank-you, you answered many of my own questions. so much i didn't know and still so much to learn
thanks again
i just read your answer to kenneth...very informative..thank-you, you answered many of my own questions. so much i didn't know and still so much to learn
thanks again
-
kennethchiocchi
- Newbie
- Posts: 14
- Joined: 22 Mar 2004, 00:00
Essgee
I am a bit confused here a little.
You mentione in prior posts her name was Assunta Rego, however in this post you meniton Susan Real.
Is this just a typo or is her real name Susan Real.?
You mentione in prior posts her name was Assunta Rego, however in this post you meniton Susan Real.
Is this just a typo or is her real name Susan Real.?
Seeking my long lost family, one day Ill find out who is who
Re: Essgee
Assunta Rego is the Italian... Susan Rego would be the English. While Giuseppe translated to Joseph in English, Assunta is not really translated to Susan...just the most popular choice of Americanizing the name. So yes, Assunta and Susan are the same. The records in Italy, her passenger records, would be under Assunta. In America, they could be under Assunta or Susan depending upon how formal they needed to be.kennethchiocchi wrote:I am a bit confused here a little.
You mentione in prior posts her name was Assunta Rego, however in this post you meniton Susan Real.
Is this just a typo or is her real name Susan Real.?
Have a great one!
