Update: i am still waiting for the official naturalization paperwork from MO but the USCIS did give me the documentation on what they found. A Vice Consul (through a friend) told me to send all of the paperwork that i had. I sent everything inclusive of the Parma baseball contract. I was able to speak with a Vice Consul and he told me that i need to speak with the person he gave my paperwork to. Problem is that this man is not returning my calls or emails. Since the ggf only received derivative citizenship in 1941 but the gggf was cancelled in 1938 we are guessing that the certificate was given in error. Probably when he applied for the derivative he didnt have the cancellation letter.
anyway, i tried to get an appt at another consulate and found out you cant. Boston was very nice on the phone. I did manage to speak to a Rinaldo in citizenship the other day and he told me that my son can get his citizenship done in Italy...is this true?
I think the toughtest part is because this seems to be quite an unusual case and we would like to know what they are willing to do with that cancellation...even though, as mlar stated and the law, that there is no citizenship to derive from.
this is tough and i think if things dont happen this week, the team will take the contract back...my son is miserable and will be heartbroken.
if he can go to italy to get this done, i would send him!
A
Derivative Citizenship...a problem?
Re: Derivative Citizenship...a problem?
Mbmal, yes you can most certainly apply in Italy, and that may be a way to go. Your son will need to establish residency there in order to do this because like in the US, you need to apply where you live.
If Parma wants your son on their team (and it seems they do), ask them for some help. They may be able to provide him with a legal address and some guidance on how to go about doing this. Some have found that applying in Italy was easier, but this will depend on the comune and how flexible they are willing to be. With help from the bb team, they may have an incentive to get this through.
Best of luck.
If Parma wants your son on their team (and it seems they do), ask them for some help. They may be able to provide him with a legal address and some guidance on how to go about doing this. Some have found that applying in Italy was easier, but this will depend on the comune and how flexible they are willing to be. With help from the bb team, they may have an incentive to get this through.
Best of luck.
Re: Derivative Citizenship...a problem?
I'm sure the Italian team has dealt with similar situations. Just explain everything to them about the delay. They can probably arrange for your son to get some special sort of visa and then he can apply for his citizenship in Italy. He won't have to worry about the comune being "flexible" if he is there with a visa.
Re: Derivative Citizenship...a problem?
By the way, I'm still a resident of my comune in Italy. I find it hilarious that someone who has never lived in Italy can give advice on how the comunes operate and whether or not they are "flexible". Your son can't go to Italy for an extended stay without either an Italian passport or a visa. If he has either, his comune is required to work with him and will. Don't worry, he will get there.
Re: Derivative Citizenship...a problem?
Definitely, contact the team. I'm quite sure they will be willing to help. BTW, to clarify, when I wrote "flexible" I was referring to the processing of the citizenship application, not your son's presence in Italy. If he is in Italy on a visa and has an official residence, he can apply without a problem.
Some comuni (like some consulates), however, are easier than others in terms of citizenship applications. You may want to post on www.expatsinitaly.com Several posters there have actually applied at Italian comuni and may be able to provide more information regarding the type of visa your son may require and the documents that are required. If I recall correctly, one major difference is that naturalization documents must be translated if you are applying in Italy. I'm not certain about apostilles.
Jennabet, that was a rude comment (and not surprisingly, off topic). Your relatively short residence in one small comune does not qualify you as an expert by any means. My husband was born and raised in Italy and his entire family still lives there. And, of course, you misinterpreted my meaning in terms of "flexibility."
Some comuni (like some consulates), however, are easier than others in terms of citizenship applications. You may want to post on www.expatsinitaly.com Several posters there have actually applied at Italian comuni and may be able to provide more information regarding the type of visa your son may require and the documents that are required. If I recall correctly, one major difference is that naturalization documents must be translated if you are applying in Italy. I'm not certain about apostilles.
Jennabet, that was a rude comment (and not surprisingly, off topic). Your relatively short residence in one small comune does not qualify you as an expert by any means. My husband was born and raised in Italy and his entire family still lives there. And, of course, you misinterpreted my meaning in terms of "flexibility."
Re: Derivative Citizenship...a problem?
They are only allowed to have4 players on the team with sport visas and thy had already given them to players that are nit of Italian descent. He can get a visa to go over there (i would guess)but he cannot be on the team without his citizenship. So if it were to take a while it would not work.....
Re: Derivative Citizenship...a problem?
I see. They are permitted to have four non-Italians on the team, a quota they have already filled. Your son, then, would have to be Italian (citizen) to play.
He may be able to get a visa in attesa di cittadinanza (in expectation of citizenship). Generally, citizenship applications move more quickly in Italy because there are fewer applicants, but they may not move quickly enough for this baseball season. Your son is young, though, and if he goes through the process now and continues to practice, there may be a possibility for next year.
He may be able to get a visa in attesa di cittadinanza (in expectation of citizenship). Generally, citizenship applications move more quickly in Italy because there are fewer applicants, but they may not move quickly enough for this baseball season. Your son is young, though, and if he goes through the process now and continues to practice, there may be a possibility for next year.
Re: Derivative Citizenship...a problem?
Mler, my entire family lives in Italy as well, having been born there for three generations. And I'm not the non-Italian wife of an Italian. I'm the Italian. Italy is my home, so I wouldn't exactly call it a short stay in one comune. I have been a resident of two comunes. Please do not speak for me. Grazie.
Re: Derivative Citizenship...a problem?
Mbmal, I had the same problem trying to get info from USCIS for my boyfriend's grand-father's naturalization. But I called them and found that they were very responsive, even calling me back and leaving contact numbers. If you haven't done that yet, you might try calling and asking for a lady named Veta Whisnat at 202-587-9830. At least she may be able to send you something you can use while you wait to receive the certified copy as a result of the US Information Act request.
Re: Derivative Citizenship...a problem?
.......BTW, to clarify, when I wrote "flexible" I was referring to the processing of the citizenship application, not your son's presence in Italy........
Here again, one who has never lived in Italy hasn't a clue. It's not up to the Comune to question a foreigner's presence in Italy. That is the job of the Questura (Municipal Police Dept.) where everyone without a Visa must check in before they ever see the inside of a Comune.
If you are present with a Visa and the Questura has given you permission to stay, the Comune will process your citizenship application. There is no flexibility about it.
Here again, one who has never lived in Italy hasn't a clue. It's not up to the Comune to question a foreigner's presence in Italy. That is the job of the Questura (Municipal Police Dept.) where everyone without a Visa must check in before they ever see the inside of a Comune.
If you are present with a Visa and the Questura has given you permission to stay, the Comune will process your citizenship application. There is no flexibility about it.
Re: Derivative Citizenship...a problem?
I second mler's suggestion to post your concerns on expatsinitaly and maybe on italiancitizenship.freeforums.org, too. Applying for citizenship in Italy is definitely a possibility, and it may take a lot less time than doing so in the US. But it may not happen in one or two weeks, maybe a month if the comune knows what they're doing and can expedite things.
Time...this is where reps from the baseball team, a politician, the mayor, etc. can provide assistance/influence to expedite the process. And I mean, very rapidly if you have the right connections. One month is the quickest I've heard of someone having their citizenship recognized in Italy (don't think that they had anyone 'moving' their case), but when you have influential people on your side, one or two weeks might be a possibility. The mayor of the comune is one of the best friends to have.
If the team isn't prepared to deal with your son's citizenship complications, he can still go to Italy and apply for citizenship without their involvement. (ie: if they were to withdraw his contract) He could go without any type of visa, as long as he has all of his documents for his application complete. (Everything with an apostille and translations legalized before leaving US.)
I hope that your son doesn't miss out on an opportunity to play baseball in Italy. It may be that he has to wait a little longer than he originally hoped, but if he's determined, he'll get there eventually. Good luck.
Time...this is where reps from the baseball team, a politician, the mayor, etc. can provide assistance/influence to expedite the process. And I mean, very rapidly if you have the right connections. One month is the quickest I've heard of someone having their citizenship recognized in Italy (don't think that they had anyone 'moving' their case), but when you have influential people on your side, one or two weeks might be a possibility. The mayor of the comune is one of the best friends to have.
If the team isn't prepared to deal with your son's citizenship complications, he can still go to Italy and apply for citizenship without their involvement. (ie: if they were to withdraw his contract) He could go without any type of visa, as long as he has all of his documents for his application complete. (Everything with an apostille and translations legalized before leaving US.)
I hope that your son doesn't miss out on an opportunity to play baseball in Italy. It may be that he has to wait a little longer than he originally hoped, but if he's determined, he'll get there eventually. Good luck.
Re: Derivative Citizenship...a problem?
Disclaimer: Not every comune in Italy is the same. When one lives in one comune (or two for that matter), it doesn't mean that what THEY experience will be the case in EVERY other comune in Italy. Some comunes ARE more flexible than others, all you have to do is read of the varied experiences from people who live there, or even from the postings by people on this forum that have had direct dealings with hundreds of comunes.
Advice: Utilize more than one website to gather information, listen to more than one person, and do your own research.
Insulting people on a forum meant to assist individuals with Italian citizenship does nothing more than draw attention to the true character of the individual offering the advice/information, and put doubt about it's validity into the mind of the reader.
Advice: Utilize more than one website to gather information, listen to more than one person, and do your own research.
Insulting people on a forum meant to assist individuals with Italian citizenship does nothing more than draw attention to the true character of the individual offering the advice/information, and put doubt about it's validity into the mind of the reader.
Re: Derivative Citizenship...a problem?
Non Italians who have never lived in Italy would not know anything about the operations of any comune. The purpose of the comune is to serve the residents of the comune. It has more responsibility than just registering documents that were forwarded by a consulate. If everything is in order meaning the person is in Italy legally with either a passport or a visa, the comune will be of assistance.
But the problem Italy has is that there are too many people there trying to circumvent the system. Many work illegally and some associate with or have spouses who are considered to be undesirables. Others drive up prices in places where Italians can no longer afford to live. There are any number of other problems with foreigners. The Comunes have heard it all and as an Italian citizen who plans to die in Italy, I applaud the comunes for tightening up the rules.
The best way to live in Italy is with an Italian passport or a visa obtained from your consulate before you go to Italy for an extended stay.
I agree that you should do your own research but I would not consider as valid advice you receive from regions of Italy, such as Florence, Umbria, etc. that attract foreign students who are looking to remain in Italy when their Visa's run out. Nor would I take advice from newly recognized Italian citizens who think their non-Italian spouses are entitled to become Italian citizens immediately just because they happen to be living in Italy.
But the problem Italy has is that there are too many people there trying to circumvent the system. Many work illegally and some associate with or have spouses who are considered to be undesirables. Others drive up prices in places where Italians can no longer afford to live. There are any number of other problems with foreigners. The Comunes have heard it all and as an Italian citizen who plans to die in Italy, I applaud the comunes for tightening up the rules.
The best way to live in Italy is with an Italian passport or a visa obtained from your consulate before you go to Italy for an extended stay.
I agree that you should do your own research but I would not consider as valid advice you receive from regions of Italy, such as Florence, Umbria, etc. that attract foreign students who are looking to remain in Italy when their Visa's run out. Nor would I take advice from newly recognized Italian citizens who think their non-Italian spouses are entitled to become Italian citizens immediately just because they happen to be living in Italy.
Re: Derivative Citizenship...a problem?
Another thing you might consider when doing your research, Mbal. Italian-Americans who have been recognized as Italian citizens or who are in the process of being recognized as Italian citizens are not "expats". Therefore, their experiences with Italian bureaucracy would be totally different from non-Italians or foreigners (those who are considered expats). I just want to make sure you arn't confused by this.
Re: Derivative Citizenship...a problem?
Sorry, jennabet, but you're mistaken. I'm not the non-Italian wife of an Italian. I'm the Italian wife of an Italian, and my (and my husband's) family trace back many more than three generations. I've been having fun doing the research.jennabet wrote:Mler, my entire family lives in Italy as well, having been born there for three generations. And I'm not the non-Italian wife of an Italian. I'm the Italian. Italy is my home, so I wouldn't exactly call it a short stay in one comune. I have been a resident of two comunes. Please do not speak for me. Grazie.
Please do not misinterpret my status. Grazie. And, yes, the comuni do not determine your eligibility to remain in Italy; I believe that's what I said--in two posts I might add.To clarify further, the expats in italy forum is not only for expats. Many of the people who post there are Italians who have obtained their citizenship jure sanguinis while residing in Italy. Many still live there. Their experiences may be helpful to others considering a similar option.
As kontessa correctly points out, all comuni are different, so you actually won't know how quickly the citizenship process will work until you actually apply. Best of luck Mbmal to you and to your son. Remind him that he will have many years to play baseball. As we Yankee fans said after last year's post-season. "Wait till next year!!"
