Proving No Record of Naturalization

[lombardo85]

Hi everyone,
I've asked a similar question before here, but I just want to double check a few things.

I'm looking to get citizenship GGF>GM>F(born 1950). Through my research, I have been unable to find proof that my GGF was ever naturalized. He came over as a minor so I'll need to also prove that my GGGF was never naturalized (also seems to be on track.)
Here's what I think I need to prove no naturalization to the consulate:
1. Certificate of No Record from NARA for both GGF and GGGF
2. Certificate of No Record from USCIS for both GGF and GGGF
3. Certificate of No Record from the county for both GGF and GGGF

Is this correct? What exactly do these letters need to have to be accepted by the consulate (notarized, certified)? Is there something specifically to ask the records offices for?

Thanks!

[Italia1963]

Since I am going through the NYC consulate, I am going with the premise, when in doubt, give them more than they ask for.
I had my letters from the NARA and USCIS apostille by the US State Dept and certificate from the state Supreme Court apostille by NY state. The two items that I sent to State didn't have to be certified beforehand and the Supreme Court document didn't have to be certified either because it was created by a County Clerk employee (County Clerks in NY keep Supreme Court records).

[Drew927]

In addition to the USCIS and NARA documents, you will need to provide letters of No Records Found from each of the county clerks offices that your relative lived in. My GF lived in Patterson, Schenectady and Brooklyn(Kings County) so I provided all of those county clerks letters in addition to New York county clerk. The Consulate was pleased to see all of them and never questioned naturalization. They did not require a translation or apostille.
I hope this helps,
Drew

[grandpa77]

Does anyone have a sample letter which I can use to get a court record that my GGF did not naturalize? I need to sent this to New York County.

[Drew927]

This is the letter that I sent. Just add your personal info. I recieved a No records found letter within two weeks.
Good luck Drew.

Date

Your name and address


New York County Clerk
60 Centre Street
New York, NY 10007

Dear Sirs,

I am applying to the Italian Consulate in New York for Dual Citizenship status. Required with my application is a record of Naturalization for my Grandfather. Please search your records for an application/certificate of naturalization. If none were found, I would then require a certified letter stating No Records Found.

My Grandfather was (Your relative's name). He immigrated to the United States on (date of emigration if known).

Residences:

Date of Birth:

Date of Death:

Married to:

Children:


Enclosed please find a money order in the amount of $10.00. You may contact me using any of the above listed contact information regarding questions associated with the search and issuance of the requested document.

Thank you for your help.

Sincerely,

[grandpa77]

Thank you so much Drew. I've been waiting to get an answer like that for months!

One more question if you can:

Did you also get a NO RECORD letter from NARA and the census ?

I've contacted both Nara and the census several times and they send back responses that they have no information about my request but never a Letter of no Record. Would you be able to tell me how I can get a letter of no record from Nara and the census ? I applied to both online several times and they sent back no information responses but never a letter of no record. Your advise is greatly appreciated!!!!

Thanks

[Drew927]

Grandpa,
Send a request using the same letter format i posted to the NARA for the No Records Found letter to:

The National Archives and Records Administration
Northeast Region
201 Varick Street, 12th floor
New York, NY 10014

As far as the fee for the search, I suggest you call this # (866)840-1752. They will also search for a census record as well. If you are able to go there yourself, they will assist you with your search and give you a letter that day.
When you call, let them know why you need this letter. They are very familiar with these requests.
I do have one question. In the letters you recieved from the NARA, at the end of the second paragraph, does it state "Based on the information furnished, the following individual was not found:"? If so, this is what i have and was accepted by the Consulate.

Good luck Drew

[grandpa77]

Thank you so much! I just edited and printed out the letter you advised and going to the post office now to get a money order.

Yes, I got a strange letter back from nara and it says "Based on the information furnished, the following individual was not found" but it's not official looking whatsoever.

[Drew927]

That's it!
As long as it has your relative's info is on it, that is what the Consulate wants to see. The NARA will not provide a certified document, just a letter stating they searched thier database and found no individual by that name.
Check it off your list. This will not require translation or apostille, but the consulate will keep it as supporting documentation.

[zodda]

I received a letter from the USIS for both grandparents saying no records found and a sealed copy of the 1940 census from the NARA showing that they both had AL status. Question is this sufficient or do I need more info to prove they were never citizens or naturalized. Next question do I need to send these two documents to be translated.

[Drew927]

Zodda,

The USCIS and Census records do not need translation. However you will need a letter from each county clerk that your Direct descendent lived in stating "no record of naturalization found" . Those letters I had translated to be safe.

[Tcocktail]

in the 1900 census it looks like there is a scribble mark next to my ggf name for naturalization he died prior to the 1910 census his wife is listed with nothing in the naturalization box. the nara is sending me a no record found letter. how do we know from the census first if the information is true and second if anyone can read it? will tyhere be a document in the ohio municipal courts? because there is a scribble will that decide if the census will agree he was naturalized

[Tcocktail]

Thank you all for your help I appreciate it
I unfortunately found my ggf naturalization document I was so sure he was not naturalized

[Drew927]

Hi,
The most important issue regarding naturalization is was your grandparent born "before" your GGF was naturalized?
If so then you're good! Any child born after naturalization, no longer has Jure sanguine.

[mler]

Unfortunately, not true in this case. Since the ggf died in 1910, if he naturalized, it could only have been before the 1912 law was enacted. A pre-1912 naturalization caused a loss of Italian citizenship for the entire family no matter when they were born.