VOLPIN - need Death Record (GGGF) & Birth Record (GGF) from Veneto region

[volpin]

Buongiorno, and a good 2016 to all !

I am looking for practical help to retrieve documents related to the birth and/or baptism of my Italian-born great-grand-father (GGF) and the death certificate of his father, my great-great-grand-father (GGGF) so I can apply for Italian citizenship.

The reason for this is that I am married to an EU citizen, I have two children with EU citizenship / an EU passport but I do not (and it is very hard to get my husband’s citizenship because you need to be able speak the local language well and we do not live there).
In addition they are discussing to disallow dual citizenship altogether, meaning my children would have to choose (and are forced to lose one citizenship), something we clearly do not want !

I was told I am considered an Italian / can apply for Italian citizenship as all decedents on my father’s side are Italian (GF & GM, GGF & GGM etc.).
It would be great for me (both legally and emotionally) as well as for our children because in Italy you are allowed to have dual citizenship and Italy does not seem to have issues with Italians having another nationality.

My story; my GGF emigrated to Brazil and settled in Pedreira a small town in the state of São Paulo.

His death certificate states:
- his name as João Volpin
- his origin: Rovigo, Italy
- his parents: Paulo Volpin and Theresa Capato
- death on 16 Jan 1932 at 77 years of age which means he was born in / around 1855.

João is not an Italian name and his given name is likely to have been Giovanni or Giacomo.
His parents must have been Paolo and Teresa in Italian.
Rovigo is both a city and a province in the Veneto region but I do not have more detail.

I have written to the "diocesi di Adria - Rovigo" and to cultural centres in the region, but with the data I have they do not seem to be able to (want to) locate anything.

We unfortunately do not know in what year he left Italy and arrived in Brazil, from where he left in Italy (as Veneto is in the north perhaps Venice or Genova), and where in Brazil he arrived (large ports are Santos and Rio de Janeiro).

I am wondering whether people have looked in the same area (Rovigo province or Veneto region), and if yes, where you were successful (local administration, church, cultural group, etc.)

In case anybody has experience with the search for documentation regarding people emigrating from Northern Italy (ship registries/documents etc.), that would be helpful as well.

To claim Italian citizenship I understand I need the following documents:
GGGF - Paolo: death certificate (as Rovigo was not Italy in 1855, proving he was alive in 1861/1866* so he could have passed on his Italian citizenship to his son, my GGF
GGF - Giovanni / Giacomo ("João" in Brazil): Italian birth certificate or Italian baptism certificate & the (Brazilian) death certificate.
GF: Eugenio: Brazilian birth certificate & death certificate (legalized by the Italian consulate?)
Father: Brazilian birth certificate (legalized by the Italian consulate?)
My Brazilian birth certificate (legalized by the Italian consulate?)
My Sons' birth certificates - can they be included in the same application?

* Rovigo / the region of Veneto became part of Italy either in 1861 (unification) or 1866 (third) Italian war of independence. Before the French occupation it was part of the Austrian-Hungarian empire and I guess before that it was part of the republic of Venice / Venezia.

Documentation wise, would I also need the marriage certificates of my GGF & GGM, GF & GM, F & M ?
All decedents on my father’s side are Italian meaning I would qualify through an "all male lineage".

Any help would be truly appreciated.

[suanj]

Hi,
I remember your other topic http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/l ... lit=volpin and I am so sorry that you no found your ancestor birthplace...
I searched in military records, Rovigo archive, but no one son of Paolo Volpin and Tersa Capato, so the first name Giovanni is wrong; I searched by first names: Giacomo, Gioachino, Giacinto, Graziano, Giobatta, Giovambattista, Fiorenzo and no success...
But because the military records starting from 1846 your ancestor must be on the database... just the search can be made by surname and first name.. so I don't know wwhat other first name to put for the database's search....
also I cannot find his arrival in Santos port, I searched in Registros de matrícula - Museu da Imigração
do Estado de São Paulo http://museudaimigracao.org.br/acervodigital/index.php and nobody Giovanni Volpin.. I searched just in the hope to find the right first name and by the age, to know the possible birth year... You have further details? Joao married in Italy or Brazil?
Abt what you need, abt italian certificates to apply at dual citizenship, well you need just of italian baptism certificate of Joao and no more (please note: that if he married in Brazil; instead if he married in Italy you need also of this marriage certificate as a well of italian baptism certificate of his wife)... hoping helpful,
suanj

[volpin]

Thank you Suanj !

Yes, I look from time to time to see if I can find something new, esp. if there are new developments (in this case the fact my children might have to choose one of their nationalities). I know a lot of documents are being scanned and put online so I am hoping I might get lucky one day.

You said you did not find any Giovanni with parents Paolo Volpin and Teresa Capato in the military records - Rovigo archive, but did you find any sons? That would already be a start.
Did you find anything in the Conscription Records ["Liste di Leva"] or Draft Records ["Liste d'Estrazione"]?
As my GGF name in Brazil was João I presume he would have been Giovanni in Italy, but perhaps he completely changed his name (?)

The story is that my GGF "João" et his future wife on the boat to Brazil and married Pascoa / Paschôa in or around Pedreira, a small town close to Campinas.

[suanj]

Hi,
I made the search in Liste di Leva, here you can subscribe a free account http://www.aspd.beniculturali.it/leva_iscrizione.php
and so you can search ... So also his wife was a italian: Pasqua or Pasqualina could be her right first name... for a helpful search it is necessary to find more infos and to confirm the data that you already have... to start with infos on Death certificate is no much helpful, because the infos was provided from heirs; instead: the marriage certificate, or the "processo para casamento", the arrival and/or the ship's manifest can give us some more precise info...
regards,
suanj

[volpin]

Hello, we found the birth certificate from my GGF Giovanni Volpin!!! Very excited!!!

Some information does not link 100% and I was wondering whether it could be an issue.

Can I link

(Italian birth certificate)
Giovanni Volpin
Born in 1853
Father: Paolo Volpin
Mother: Teresa Cappato

with

(Brazilian death certificate)
João Volpin from Rovigo Italy
Died in 1932 at 77 years of age (1932 minus 77 is either 1854 or 1855)
Father: Paulo Volpin
Mother: Theresa Capato


I read there should be no issue with the fact Giovanni was changed on Brazilian documents to João (and Paolo to Paulo and Teresa to Theresa)
His mother’s surname is Capato on his death certificate but appears to be Cappato on his birth certificate (one or two “p”). Both surnames exist in the Rovigo area.
Lastly, when linking his Italian birth certificate to his Brazilian death certificate it is off by a year (although all the other information appears consistent). In your experience, do you think this could cause a problem (when presenting the documents to the Italian consulate to assess my direct link to Giovanni to determine my Italian ancestry)?