Translating Birth Certificate

[Jamiepalma2]

Thank you! I think we also found out with one of her links mmogno posted that Anna may have been married to two different men. She married my great great grandpa in 1901 i believe and then he came to America without her and the children. Then the one link says she married in 1909. Family legend is that she had a child by a different man and the family told Vincent so then Vincent had her come to America with the children. I was never told she married the other man before she came to America.

[Jamiepalma2]

Interesting I was just going back and looking at your translations I think the bans may have been on Annas marriages not Massimillas like I was thinking. There doesn't seem to be a ban on Massimillas which i thought there would be since she was disowned by her family for marrying Donato.

[AngelaGrace56]

Thank you! I think we also found out with one of her links mmogno posted that Anna may have been married to two different men. She married my great great grandpa in 1901 i believe and then he came to America without her and the children. Then the one link says she married in 1909. Family legend is that she had a child by a different man and the family told Vincent so then Vincent had her come to America with the children. I was never told she married the other man before she came to America.

You've lost me here. (I've spent most of the day out in the sun gardening, so may have a little sun stroke!) My understanding is that there are two women born to the same couple, one born circa 1882 in Bacucco (Antoniette) who married in 1901, and the other is Anna, born 1888, married in 1909. Both were unmarried. Is that what you understand?

Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

Here's the last record needing to be translated. It just gives a little additional information to what the marriage record says:

Marriage Publication No 36: Vincenzo Palma and Antonietta di Girolamo

Pianella: 19 October 1901, 4.35 pm,
Before the official in the town of Pianella appeared:

Groom: Vincenzo Palma, celibe (unmarried), 21 yo, contadino, residing Pianella, son of Luigi, contadino, residing in Pianella, and of Lucia Fandacuzzi, contadina, residing in same place.

Bride: Antonietta di Girolamo, nubile (unmarried woman), 19 yo, contadina, residing Pianella, daughter of Donato, contadino, residing in Padova, daughter of Massimilla di Giovanni, contadina, residing same place.

The groom was born in Pianella and the bride was born in Bacucco.

Witnesses:
Augusto Cantelini, 52 yo, Legale (lawyer) and Alfonso Bufarale, 21 yo, Orefice (goldsmith)

The attachments (allegati) presented were the respective birth acts of the groom and bride, from Pianella (dated today) and from Bacucco (dated 21 July). There was also something received from the Court of Teramo dated 21 July 1893, and I'm not exactly sure whether it is saying that the father, Donato di Girolamo, prohibits the marriage or that he was prohibited...…... not sure?????? I'm sure someone else will be able to make sense of what is written and translate appropriately.

(I documenti sono: le copie de gli atti di nascita degli sposi, rilasciate da gli Uffiziali dello Stato Civile di Pianella in data di oggi e di Bacucco in data 21 July ultimo, non che copia di Sentenza della Corte d'Assise di Teramo in data ventidue July milleottocentonovantatre, rilasciata da quel Cancelliere, colla quale si dichiara l'interdizione di Donato di Girolamo, padre della sposa.)

Luigi Palma and Lucia Fandacuzzi, the parents of the groom, also Massimilla di Giovanni, mother of the bride, appeared to give their consent.
Banns were posted on 20, 27 and 30 October 1901.

Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

Interesting I was just going back and looking at your translations I think the bans may have been on Annas marriages not Massimillas like I was thinking. There doesn't seem to be a ban on Massimillas which i thought there would be since she was disowned by her family for marrying Donato.

Re: Marriage Banns
Just to clarify, when we are talking about marriage banns we are basically saying “a proclaimation” or a “public announcement” of a marriage that is going to be taking place (an impending marriage).

The purpose of these documents which were posted before a marriage, was to ensure that there were no impediments to the marriage, e.g. one of the spouses already being married. They were read aloud and then posted. If the spouses were from different towns, these banns of marriage would normally be posted in both towns.

Angela

[Jamiepalma2]

I was thinking marriage bans were something forbidding the marriage. I believe antonniette and Anna to be the same person. I think the documents have both of them having the same parents. When Anna came to America her passport and marriage certificate had two completely different dates and she always said she didn't know how old she was. Do you believe Antoinette and Anna to be the same person?

[Jamiepalma2]

In America she said her full name was Antoinette I believe. She passed before I was born so I'm not exactly sure.

[AngelaGrace56]

I was thinking marriage bans were something forbidding the marriage. I believe antonniette and Anna to be the same person. I think the documents have both of them having the same parents. When Anna came to America her passport and marriage certificate had two completely different dates and she always said she didn't know how old she was. Do you believe Antoinette and Anna to be the same person?

No, I don't. They must be sisters. We have Anna's birth record and she was clearly born in Pianella in 1888. We don't have Antoniette's birth record but both the marriage record and the publications say that she was born in Bacucco circa 1882. From the marriage banns I am reading that the officials had recieved Antoniette's marriage record, and she was born in Bacucco. Bacucco is some distance away from Pianella????? Interesting.....
What other documents do you have pertaining to the parents?

Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

I had a look through the Pianella indices for a marriage record for Donato Antonio di Girolamo and Massimina but didn't see one.

Here's Donato's 1847 birth record:

Birth Record No 97: Donato Antonio di Girolamo (Father to Anna)
Pianella: 18 June 1847, 3 pm, born the same day at 6 am
Father: Nicola di Girolamo, 27, contadino, living in Pianella
Mother: Lucia Ferrari, 28 yo, contadina, legitimate wife of Nicola
Baptised 18 June 1847 in the church of Santo Salvatore.
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

I also located another child born to Donato and Massimina:

Birth Record No 158: Ciriaco di Girolamo (Brother to Anna)
Pianella: 21 September 1891, 10 am
Born on 19 September 1891, 11.30 am, Contrada San Desiderio, No 153
Father: Donato di Girolamo, 44 yo, contadino, living in Pianella
Mother: Massimina di Giovanni, Donato's wife, contadina, living with him
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2043788

Angela

[mmogno]

.... Casa di Pena (Penal Institution) (I think he was in prison), Padova...

http://3.citynews-padovaoggi.stgy.ovh/~ ... se-2-2.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... 060907.jpg
http://padovacultura.padovanet.it/sites ... gioni_.jpg

[Jamiepalma2]

This is a fun mystery! I have one other document that our family had and made a copy for me. I have been unable to find her death certificate on Ancestry or family search. I did look at the ship logs from her trip to America. I believe she arrived in 1912 and she had all four of her children in Pianella.

[Jamiepalma2]

for some reason it won't let me attach it. It was just a marriage document with her parents names on it.

[Jamiepalma2]

Our family has written down that Annas birthday is April 15 1883. They got 83 because she said that she was 18 when she had my great grandpa.I haven't looked at the birth certificates that we have found yet but ill check the date. Im still looking for her birth and death certificates and Massimillas marriage certificates.

[mmogno]

There was also something received from the Court of Teramo dated 21 July 1893, and I'm not exactly sure whether it is saying that the father, Donato di Girolamo, prohibits the marriage or that he was prohibited...…... not sure?????? I'm sure someone else will be able to make sense of what is written and translate appropriately.

(I documenti sono: ... copia di Sentenza della Corte d'Assise di Teramo in data ventidue July milleottocentonovantatre, rilasciata da quel Cancelliere, colla quale si dichiara l'interdizione di Donato di Girolamo, padre della sposa.)

Art. 32 codice penale: Interdizione legale
Il condannato all’ergastolo è in stato di interdizione legale.
La condanna all’ergastolo importa anche la decadenza dalla potestà dei genitori.
Il condannato alla reclusione per un tempo non inferiore a cinque anni è, durante la pena, in stato d’interdizione legale; la condanna produce altresì, durante la pena, la sospensione dall’esercizio della potestà dei genitori .....

[Jamiepalma2]

@mmogno thank you. I just put that into google translate.
Art. 32 Penal Code: Legal Interdiction
The life sentence is Legal disqualification.
The sentence also imports the forfeiture of parental responsibility.
The condemned to imprisonment for a period not less than five years, during the penalty, in a state of legal interdiction; the sentence also produces, during the penalty, suspend the exercise of parental responsibility

Sounds like he was in jail. Hopefully there is a way to find out why...