verification of birth date for Vito Chironna

[Jen5525]

I know this record was registered in March, but I think the birthdate may have been earilier? I have found a record later in the US that i think may be him, but the record reports a birthdate of 23 Feb 1906. No parents names are listed on that record, so I'm guessing based on other details I have including location etc.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2043445

thanks!

[mmogno]

"dì ventiquattro del mese scorso" = 24 Feb 1906

[AngelaGrace56]

Birth No 210: Vito Chironna
Registered at Altamura: 1 March 1906
Born on 24 February 1906 at 11 pm. (mese scorso – last month)
Mother: Giuditta Clemente, casalinga, wife of Giuseppe Chironna, barber, living here (Altamura)

Angela

[Jen5525]

Thank you both! I'm going to say its very likely the other record I found is for him...Feb 23rd vs 24th is close. Hopefully I'll find something to definitively prove it but for now I'll mark it as tentative

[AngelaGrace56]

"dì ventiquattro del mese scorso" = 24 Feb 1906

Sorry, mmogno. I didn't see you there. You must have been hiding. You're quicker than me.

Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

Thank you both! I'm going to say its very likely the other record I found is for him...Feb 23rd vs 24th is close. Hopefully I'll find something to definitively prove it but for now I'll mark it as tentative

It was possibly a typo. Are you able to post it so we can offer another set of eyes to look.

Edit to Add: Jen, for your info, at the bottom of the record it says that the declarant (Chiara Reale) reported the birth in the absence of the ailing? father ( in mancanta del padre del manato???).

Angela

[Jen5525]

So, here's where I'm certain. I know they came to the US in 1911. They are in NY in 1915, 1920 and 1930 census. They names are butchered a bit in each but close enough and in the right order and ages to be 99.9% certain it's them. The father is Joseph, a barber. The mom's name is Giuditta (or Judita in one). Some of the children start switching to Americanized names. Vito becomes William in the 1930 census.

(In my family, for some reason Vito always seems to become William. FYI...the Giuditta Clemente here is the daughter of Pasqua Marvullo & and Vitantonio Clemente; sister of Giuseppe that I've posted about; Giuseppe's son Vito also became William at some point).

Anyway, I found a record on ancestry.com. Its a US social security death index record. I've just tried copying the link and then using another browser, but I don't think it will direct correctly. Here it is though, as well as the details.

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse. ... &ml_rpos=6

Name: William Chironna
SSN: 101-12-7137
Last Residence:
23451 Virginia Beach, Virginia Beach City, Virginia, USA
BORN: 23 Feb 1906
Died: Apr 1990
State (Year) SSN issued: New York (Before 1951)

FYI...I find several other records listing a birthdate of 23 Feb 1905. So, I'm not sure if they are the same person, but I'm saving them as possible and maybe it will become clearer.

[Jen5525]

Thank you both! I'm going to say its very likely the other record I found is for him...Feb 23rd vs 24th is close. Hopefully I'll find something to definitively prove it but for now I'll mark it as tentative

It was possibly a typo. Are you able to post it so we can offer another set of eyes to look.

Edit to Add: Jen, for your info, at the bottom of the record it says that the declarant (Chiara Reale) reported the birth in the absence of the ailing? father ( in mancanta del padre del manato???).

Angela

Hmmm. Now that notation is interesting. The passenger slip I have for 1911 has them traveling without the father. There is a notation that they are going to join the father, Giuseppe. So maybe he'd left for the US before the birth? I haven't found his manifest slip yet

[AngelaGrace56]

Yes, I'd wondered that initially as well, because I was focussing on the word "mancanta" (absent/missing) and I was going to suggest to you that maybe he had gone to America. But then when I looked at the word "manato", which took me a while to work out what it meant, I realised that he was unwell. I may have misinterpreted the meaning of that word though. I know the word "malato" not "manato" to mean unwell. Someone else will know exactly what it means in this context. Sometimes things get lost in translation.

Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

So, here's where I'm certain. I know they came to the US in 1911. They are in NY in 1915, 1920 and 1930 census. They names are butchered a bit in each but close enough and in the right order and ages to be 99.9% certain it's them. The father is Joseph, a barber. The mom's name is Giuditta (or Judita in one). Some of the children start switching to Americanized names. Vito becomes William in the 1930 census.

(In my family, for some reason Vito always seems to become William. FYI...the Giuditta Clemente here is the daughter of Pasqua Marvullo & and Vitantonio Clemente; sister of Giuseppe that I've posted about; Giuseppe's son Vito also became William at some point).

Anyway, I found a record on ancestry.com. Its a US social security death index record. I've just tried copying the link and then using another browser, but I don't think it will direct correctly. Here it is though, as well as the details.

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse. ... &ml_rpos=6

Name: William Chironna
SSN: 101-12-7137
Last Residence:
23451 Virginia Beach, Virginia Beach City, Virginia, USA
BORN: 23 Feb 1906
Died: Apr 1990
State (Year) SSN issued: New York (Before 1951)

FYI...I find several other records listing a birthdate of 23 Feb 1905. So, I'm not sure if they are the same person, but I'm saving them as possible and maybe it will become clearer.

I don't have a subscription to Ancestry so can't view the link you have posted. I'm pro Family Search and use that a lot. The 1930 census is there and it has been indexed with errors: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X4PT-F29
Unfortunately I can't view the original document at the moment because my internet has gone slow.

I've noticed that Family Search have indexed some of the records for Altamura so you might want to take a look and search there as well. It may save you time. You just have to watch closely though because often there are errors in the indexing so you don't want to go off-track.

Interesting that Vito becomes William? It is obviously an American thing? All the Vito's that I know have remained Vito. I must investigate.

Anyway, I'm going to take a break now as I'm starting to lose the plot a bit - my internet connection is also a little slow at the moment on Family Search.

Angela

[mmogno]

Edit to Add:
... ( in mancanta del padre del neonato).

Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

Edit to Add:
... ( in mancanta del padre del neonato).

Angela

Whoops. How embarrassing Of course! Neonato – that makes perfect sense and it also ties in better with our thinking that he was possibly in America at the time of the birth.

Grazie tanto, mmogno.

Angela

[Jen5525]

Thanks again Angela...and mmogno

I do have the 1930 census...that's where he changes to William. Prior to that, he's Vito. Not sure if it is an American thing, but it is definitely in my family. Not sure why they picked William to replace Vito, but it's happened 3 times now. Again, this is his birth record

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2043445

There is another Vito Chironna in the record, also in the NY area, and also from Altamura. He was born Dec 1904. I'd think it's somewhat likely that they are related.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2043445


There is also another William Chironna (spouse Filomena) whose records all indicate he was born in 5 Jun 1891 in Altamura. There is a Chironna in that year and month, but the name is Angela (obviously a girl). Perhaps he's a brother of Angela, and has gotten the dates of their births mixed up?

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

anyway, enough for tonight. I'm going cross-eyed.

[liviomoreno]

Edit to Add:
... ( in mancanza del padre del neonato).

Angela

Whoops. How embarrassing Of course! Neonato – that makes perfect sense and it also ties in better with our thinking that he was possibly in America at the time of the birth.

Grazie tanto, mmogno.

Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

Oh yes, I can see the "z" now. Grazie, Livio.

Angela