Rats!!

[sacesta]

The index for the Record of Baptism of Costanza Chiappona led me to page 8 of the volume. The records in this volume are heavily damaged. They look like they have been eaten by rats! The topside of most of the pages are missing and with them, the page numbers.

If the pages are numbered on each face of each leaf, this would be page 8. And indeed, looking at the very first record on the top left, it appears the name of the baptized begins with the letters CO. I can't say for certain that this is the record of a grandmother 12 generations ago, but it very well may be.

Can one of you Master Translators help me decipher whatever information can be extracted from the damaged record?

Thanks, as always for all your help!

Steve

https://s6.postimg.org/3ncbhqvmp/Costanza_Chiappona.jpg

[adelfio]

Is this record is on family search online if so can you leave the pg link to the record

Marty

[sacesta]

Not sure if this is the way to do it, but here goes...

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... de=g&i=171

And here is the index page...

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... 9Q-4?i=350

[adelfio]

Naw as the rats would say
Do you have Costanza Chiappona marriage record?
Marty LOL

[sacesta]

I do Marty.

She married Vincenzo Arcieri at the Chiesa di San Giuliano Martire in 1654.

Her parents are Diego Chiappona and Sebastiana (maiden name unknown - primarily the reason why I was looking for Costanza's Record of Baptism).

His parents are Giovanni Battista Arcieri and Catarina Leo.

Steve

[erudita74]

Steve
I'm surprised to hear that Diego and wife Sebastiana are the parents in the marriage record, as in the baptism record, Sebastiana, the wife of (maestro) Diego Chiappona, is the godmother. In all the other baptism records on the two pages, the parents' names are at the beginning of the record, and not at the end, which is why I believe the parents' names are cut off in the baptism record. Gaspare Lauricella should be the godfather. The other thing is that it is highly unlikely that the infant's mother served as its godmother. Women who had just delivered a baby had to undergo a purification period of about 30 days and, during that period of time, they didn't leave their home, not even to attend the baptism of their infant. So maybe it is just a coincidence that a Sebastiana, wife of Deigo Chiappona, was the godmother in the record.

The other thing is that I found a May 24, 1644 death record for a Diego Chiappona. His wife's name is not mentioned in the record though. (right page-I think 3rd record down). So if you can find a marriage index for after this date, and it is alphabetized by first name and women are included in the index, possibly you can find Sebastiana's maiden name that way, i.e., if she did remarry. In the marriage record, she would be referred to as a widow and possibly the name of her previous spouse would be given.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... V-1?mode=g

Erudita

[erudita74]

by the way, Diego was age 50 at death.

[sacesta]

Here's the marriage record of Vincenzo Arcieri and Costanza Chiappona, dated 1654. I'm not sure what the "della Pam.a" at the end means. But clearly, Diego and Sebastiana are Costanza's parents.

https://s6.postimg.org/5fkwndew1/Vincen ... e_1654.jpg

Is it possible that the record I posted earlier is not Costanza's Record of Baptism? Maybe Diego and Sebastiana just happened to serve as godparents for whoever it was that was baptized on that record.

I looked further into the volume and saw records that had their page numbers intact and noticed that each leaf is not numbered. On those records (in the same volume) only the page on the right is numbered. That would mean that the record I posted earlier is actually page 5 and not page 8 as I thought. If so, then, this would be page 8...

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... de=g&i=174

I'm having a lot of difficulty with the handwriting in and the format of these records and cannot make sense of them.

Steve

[erudita74]

Steve

I found the marriage record myself and have it bookmarked. In it, I do see that Diego and Sebastiana were the parents. He was deceased at the time, but Sebastiana was living, which is why I searched for his death record to see if it had Sebastiana mentioned as his widow. The record says that, at one time (i.e. when Diego was alive), they were spouses of this country (referring to the town) and this parish. That is what follows their names in the record.

BTW, here's a link to the marriage record I found. Your excerpt may be from a marriage publication and not the actual record. (middle left)

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... 6JB?mode=g

The abbreviation in the link you provided means "of the parish."

In the baptism record you originally found, Diego is NOT the godfather. Sebastiana is the godmother and is stated to be the wife of Diego Chiappona. The godfather in that baptism record is Gaspare Lauricella, as I previously stated in my other post above.

I don't see the names in the new link you posted, which you now believe is foglio 8. I'll have to look and see if I can locate the correct page.

Erudita

[sacesta]

Ok. So if I understand you correctly you are saying that Sebastiana is the godmother in the baptism record that I thought was Costanza's (but is not) and that Gaspare Lauricella was the godfather in the same record. Diego, at this point, must have still been alive, because this baptism occurs before the baptism of his daughter, Costanza.

Also that Diego was, at the time of Costanza's marriage, deceased. And that Diego and Sebastiana were married in the Chiesa di San Giuliano.

Thank you for finding the actual marriage record! I had no reason to believe that what I were finding were not the actual marriage records. The records were indexed as marriage records would be, but I thought it odd that the records were so brief. According to LDS these records on microfilm #2015795 were supposed to be the marriages of San Giuliano Martire from 1565-1778. Or at least, that is what I was led to believe.

Anyway, I'm glad to know that the actual marriage records are out there and that they are much more informative than what I've been finding. I've found 17 marriage publications so far, so I have a lot of work to do now to go back and find the complete records of marriage.

Thanks again Erudita! I couldn't have gotten anywhere near as far into my research as I have without your help.

Steve

[erudita74]

Steve
Yes is the answer to your questions in paragraphs 1 and 2 in your post above.

Now I made a list of those baptized between 1630 and 1631 whose page for their baptism records is folio #8. If I can find these other names on the page, then we'll know for certain, we have the correct page, even if Costanza's record is missing.

Erudita

[erudita74]

Steve
Yes is the answer to your questions in paragraphs 1 and 2 in your post above.

Now I made a list of those baptized between 1630 and 1631 whose page for their baptism records is folio #8. If I can find these other names on the page, then we'll know for certain, we have the correct page, even if Costanza's record is missing.

Here's foglio 8, image #176-right side of the page and the back of the page-on the left, image 177; unfortunately, I think it might be the record on the top on image 177.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... MJ-D?i=175


BTW, image 170 is a duplication of image 169.

Erudita

[erudita74]

Steve
Here's the link to Diego and Sebastiana's marriage record. I'll be back later to help you with it.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... ZF5X?i=979

Erudita

[erudita74]

Steve
Here's the link to Diego and Sebastiana's marriage record. I'll be back later to help you with it.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... ZF5X?i=979

Erudita

Steve

The marriage record is dated Sept 20, 1628. Diego's parents were both deceased. He was the son of deceased Pietro and deceased Costanza Chiappona. Diego had been previously married to a Vita (I think her surname is di Simone) of this parish. Sebastiana's surname was Fiorello. She was of this parish and the daughter of Cusumano and Pietra Fiorello. Her parents were present at the marriage and gave their consent.

I also found the marriage records of Pietro and Costana (1587) and of Cusumano and Pietra (Lazzara) Fiorello (1590). I'll be back in a while with the links.

I can't find Diego's marriage to Vita though.

Erudita

[erudita74]

Marriage of Pietro Chiappone and Costanza Simone in 1587. There are no days or months given on these records He was the son of Simone and Diana Chiappone. She was the daughter of Geronimo and Caterina Simone.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... 4-W?mode=g

index is here:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... N-Q?mode=g

Marriage of Cusumano Fiorello and Pietra Lazzara in 1590. (again there is no month and day given for the record). He was the son of Giuliano and Caterina Fiorello. She was the daughter of Gio(vanni)Pietro and Antonella (then it says “rel da Antonio Giglio). “Rel” should be an abbreviation for the Latin word “relicta” which means “widow.”

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... M-Q?i=2305

index is here:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... L-K?mode=g

I rechecked the indices and still don't see Diego's first marriage
Erudita