Looking for my GGF marriage certificate - Detroit, MI

[kmdefever]

My mother lives in Michigan and is helping me gather my documents and apostilles, as most of my ancestors' vital events have happened there. She's even gone to the Wayne County (Detroit) clerk's office and searched their physical records room herself! (She says it was actually pretty fun.)

The one thing she and I have had absolutely no luck tracking down is my GGF's marriage certificate. We assume he was married in Detroit. His military registration card dated June 5, 1917 says that he was single. His Declaration of Intention on December 14, 1917 says that he was married to my GGM. So, although that seems to place their wedding date between June-December 1917, my mother was unable to find a marriage certificate during this time frame at the vital records office.

What's got us questioning the marriage date further is that his military enlistment record dated June 2, 1918 lists him as single. Did they just transfer his status over from his 1917 registration card? (He didn't fill out these forms himself as he didn't know much English.)

Joseph Faruolo (also at times misspelled Farnolo, Faruole)
DOB: Aug 2, 1889
Savoia di Lucania, PZ, Italy

Helen Postlewait
DOB: Oct 29, 1893
Parkersburg, WV

Does anyone know of any Michigan specific search sites we could try? We have tried Ancestry and Family Search already.

Could they have gotten married in my GGM's home state of WV? Or wherever he was stationed before being deployed to France during the war? No other records mention that they've ever lived anywhere else than Michigan. However, my grandfather was born in New York City; my GGM worked there at Bellevue Hospital while my GGF was in the war.

If I'm unable to track down a marriage certificate, will other documentation, e.g. census records, be acceptable proof? (I am applying in SF.) I have located census forms for 1920, 1930 and 1940 that list them as married, living in either Detroit or St. Clair Shores, MI.

Thanks in advance for any help or advice.

[Tessa78]

According to this Michigan Naturalization Petition...
Joseph Farnolo and Helen (no surname given) were married in Buffalo, NY on April 16, 1919. This was 6 days after his Hon. Discharge on 10 April 1919. Probably discharged near Buffalo Her DOB is given as 28 October 1892.

https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/61 ... PUBJs=true

Here is a Buffalo, NY newspaper from 1919 listing those who applied for Marriage Licenses (fifth column)
Listed are Joseph Farnolo, Detroit, Mich. - Helen Postlewait, Detroit, Mich.
http://fultonhistory.com/highlighter/hi ... Page=false


You can order a copy (since you know the date and place) from NYS Dept. of Health (forms available at this site)
https://www.health.ny.gov/vital_records/genealogy.htm

City Clerk
City of Buffalo
Room 1308
65 Niagara Square
Buffalo, NY 14202

EDIT TO ADD***

You may already have this... but for additional information about Giuseppe Farnolo, here is his US Army Transport information - return from France in Feb-Mar 1919. His service serial number is the same at that on the Petition for Naturalization.

Joseph Farnolo in the U.S., Army Transport Service, Passenger Lists, 1910-1939
Name: Joseph Farnolo
Departure Date: 21 Feb 1919
Departure Place: Brest, France
Arrival Date: 3 Mar 1919
Arrival Place: Hoboken, New Jersey
Residence Place: Atlantio Hichlands N.J.
Next of Kin: Mr. Rocco Farnolo
Relationship: Brother
Ship: GREAT NORTHERN
Military Unit: F.A.
Rank: Private
Service Number: 2983596

https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/61 ... PUBJs=true

AND*** His departure from NY. NY in July 1918
Name: Joseph Farnolo
Departure Date: 30 Jul 1918
Departure Place: New York, New York
Residence Place: Atlantic Highland, New Jersey
Address: General Delivery
Next of Kin: Mr Rocco A Farnolo
Relationship: Brother
Ship: Mauretania
Rank: Private
Service Number: 2983596
Notes: Battery B 328 Field Artillery

T.

[kmdefever]

Wow, Tessa78, you are amazing. I cannot thank you enough for helping me with this.

My mother had always told me that her grandmother was a secretive person, although we would have never guessed that she married my GGF after the birth of my GF. For a devout Catholic family, this must have been quite the scandal!

(We have suspicions that my GF's sister, Mary Amelia, had a different father, too-- but that's another revelation for another time.)

Since I will need a copy of my GGF and GGM's marriage certificate for my dual citizenship application, I am guessing that instead of ordering through the genealogy link you have above, I would order a certified copy with this form:

https://www.health.ny.gov/forms/doh-4382.pdf

..And include this affidavit (in lieu of a court order):

https://www.health.ny.gov/forms/doh-5000.pdf

And this would be sent to the Buffalo City Clerk instead of Albany. Or do you think I can order a genealogy copy and add the certification separately, as they do with documents in NYC?

I've just pieced together my understanding of next steps for ordering from NY State from other forum posts I've read. Gosh, I hope that this is right!?

Thanks again, Tessa. I want to send you a box of Baci di Dama cookies as a token of my appreciation.

[Tessa78]

Happy to help.

According to the naturalization record above, their son Joseph was born 22 Feb. 1920, which was 10 months after their marriage.

I think you are correct about how and where to request a certified copy.

T.

[kmdefever]

Hi, T.-

I have my grandfather's birth certificate and he was definitely born in 1919. I've learned during this whole process that accurate dates weren't that important back then. I just hope that wedding date is correct!

I tried to decipher the name and date on the newspaper you linked to above. Could you please let me know, if you know?

Thanks again!

[Tessa78]

Hi, T.-

I have my grandfather's birth certificate and he was definitely born in 1919. I've learned during this whole process that accurate dates weren't that important back then. I just hope that wedding date is correct!

I tried to decipher the name and date on the newspaper you linked to above. Could you please let me know, if you know?

Thanks again!

It is the Buffalo Evening News.
Based on what I read in the announcements on the page (events dated April 21 and after), and from what I could see of the top of the page - I think the issue is April 17, 1919.

My two cents... Joseph left the USA in July 1918, and Joseph (the child) was born 7-8 months later. Perhaps they did not know they were expecting a child when he left...
Imagine how stressful that would have been for Helen. It appears she decided to live in NYC and have her child there (away from the eyes of those who would judge her.)

T.

[kmdefever]

Thanks, Tessa. I appreciate your help and expertise.

My mother would get a laugh about Helen being concerned about being judged. According to those who knew Helen, she was the most unpleasant and judgmental person ever.

Funny enough, I spent a couple hours on Ancestry the other night and found out that my GGF's daughter was fathered by another man. Helen had married someone in 1917-- two years before my GGF. She used a different first name, so this was pretty well hidden. It was the parents' names and her age in the Michigan marriage index that gave it away.

Wow-- during this process of getting my citizenship recognized, I'm finding out all sorts of age-old family drama!

I'm nervous about the possibility that Buffalo won't have a record of their marriage. Just a couple days ago, the State of Michigan told me they couldn't find my GFF's death certificate, although I have a barely legible copy of it. (Attached.) I don't think I can handle any more unexpected news right now. My consulate appointment isn't until May 2019; maybe I should let my Ancestry account lapse and take the summer off.

[Biff83]

Kayt,

If you can email vital records in Michigan, email them with a jpeg image of the death certificate. I've been working with my brother to get his Italian citizenship and he had the same problem with DC vital records. After he sent in his request for a death certificate, he received a letter stating they could not find the certificate. In the meantime, our cousin found a copy of the death certificate. My brother sent an email with the image attached and later the same day they let him know they "found" the record.

Biff

[kmdefever]

Thanks, Biff.

I sent a copy of the record I have with my mail-in application to the State of Michigan. And I just re-sent it in an email explaining the situation and asking them to re-check. Thanks for the suggestion.