Hi all,
I've had some serious trouble for many months not being able to link the family Oliveri with the family Buffa. But now I hope I've finally cracked the nut.
My ancestor Giuseppe Oliveri was married to Agostina Cassetta (widow of Pietro Vaccaro) on 6 November 1816 (parish of Sant'Ippolito al Capo in Palermo). His father was Antonino Oliveri (died 1827).
Going through the "Processetti" of this marriage, one of the documents seems to be the father Antonino's consent:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cat=559236
I am only able to read something like this:
"Dell'atti miei atto di consento (?) appare ... Antonino Oliveri e Buffa si consente (?) che ... figlio (?) Giuseppe Oliveri sposa .. sposati (?) con Agostina Cassetta Ved. ..."
That's about it, can anyone read the rest? (see also preceding pages for additional clues)
I interpret this document as the father Antonino Oliveri giving his approval of the marriage. Furthermore that Antonino's mother's maiden name was Buffa? In that case, my hypothesis would turn out to be right about linking those two families.
thanks, Roberto
Groom's father's consent of marriage?
Re: Groom's father's consent of marriage?
Roberto
See if this helps. I'm just stuck on the word after Consiglio which maybe for Trent-Sacred Council of Trent
Dell’atti miei atto di contento appare qui Maestro Antonino Oliveri e Buffa Giacinta che suoi figlio Giuseppe Oliveri possa contrarre sponsali con Agostina Cassetta Ved e con essa ingaggiarsi e sponsarsi in faccia di Santa Chiesa adempite la Soltitamente prescritte dal Santo Consiglio xxx e de’ segni canonici come meglio onde
Not sure if I missed anything else, or if there are any spelling errors, but this is close, if not exact.
I've never seen one of these before but it appears to be the consent of both parents, but instead of the word "consent," you have the word, " content", which means they were happy and did give their approval to the marriage. If you search the phrase, atto di contento, you don't get any results, at least I haven't.
Erudita
See if this helps. I'm just stuck on the word after Consiglio which maybe for Trent-Sacred Council of Trent
Dell’atti miei atto di contento appare qui Maestro Antonino Oliveri e Buffa Giacinta che suoi figlio Giuseppe Oliveri possa contrarre sponsali con Agostina Cassetta Ved e con essa ingaggiarsi e sponsarsi in faccia di Santa Chiesa adempite la Soltitamente prescritte dal Santo Consiglio xxx e de’ segni canonici come meglio onde
Not sure if I missed anything else, or if there are any spelling errors, but this is close, if not exact.
I've never seen one of these before but it appears to be the consent of both parents, but instead of the word "consent," you have the word, " content", which means they were happy and did give their approval to the marriage. If you search the phrase, atto di contento, you don't get any results, at least I haven't.
Erudita
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sertolicell
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Re: Groom's father's consent of marriage?
Many thanks Erudita. I was not aware that Antonino being a baker would be adressed as "Maestro".
I am not sure about the document containing approval of both parents though. Importantly, the mother of Giuseppe was Giuseppa Triolo, and she died in 1811 five years before the marriage (sorry for not mentioning this in my request). Second, the words after "Buffa" I read as an abbreviation of "si consenta", ie. "It is approved/he approves", since there is the exact same word in line above between "atto di" and "appare" albeit ending with an "o", ie. as the abbreviated noun of "consento" or "approval".
-Roberto
I am not sure about the document containing approval of both parents though. Importantly, the mother of Giuseppe was Giuseppa Triolo, and she died in 1811 five years before the marriage (sorry for not mentioning this in my request). Second, the words after "Buffa" I read as an abbreviation of "si consenta", ie. "It is approved/he approves", since there is the exact same word in line above between "atto di" and "appare" albeit ending with an "o", ie. as the abbreviated noun of "consento" or "approval".
-Roberto
Re: Groom's father's consent of marriage?
Roberto
I hate to admit that I cheated a bit, since I had never before seen such a document. I used some of the documents at the beginning of this film-look at images 8 and 9, I believe they were-where there are words that were written out in those documents and not abbreviated. That's how I arrived at the spelling of some of the words in your document. I also noticed in the other documents that there was only the father mentioned, but in yours, you have the two names given, plus the plural word "suoi" preceding the word "figlio," The other documents have "suo figlio."
I also had no idea what the occupation of your ancestor was, as I've never seen occupations in church records. But titles do appear in the church records. As to your ancestor being a baker, and having a title, well, I agree, I have never found a baker with such a title. But there is a title in THIS Latin church record for him. Possibly he wasn't a baker at the time of this church record? Also some millers had titles as in "Maestro mugnaio." I had ancestors in Sicily who were millers and bakers (same family), sometimes alternating between the two occupations at different periods. So the two occupations were definitely related.
Also, you might be interested in info I had found, many years ago, when researching the occupation "baker:"
Originally private homes weren't equipped with ovens in which breads and other baked goods could be made. It wasn't until 1806, and the abolition of feudalism, that individual families started to construct ovens in their houses and having one actually became a distinctive sign of a family being well off. Regardless of whether the baker baked in a home, or in a shop, he would start baking at 1 a.m. and normally continue until 9 a.m. the same morning. So he worked through the night, while others were asleep. His bread always smelled up the house and was still warm when he rode his bicycle, with a basket in the front and in the back, to deliver his baked baked goods to his customers. Of course, nowadays the aromas and warmth of the freshly baked goods have been sacrificed to modern technology, as the baker's role is now to control the high tech bread machines, the programmable risings, and the computerized gas ovens.
Erudita
I hate to admit that I cheated a bit, since I had never before seen such a document. I used some of the documents at the beginning of this film-look at images 8 and 9, I believe they were-where there are words that were written out in those documents and not abbreviated. That's how I arrived at the spelling of some of the words in your document. I also noticed in the other documents that there was only the father mentioned, but in yours, you have the two names given, plus the plural word "suoi" preceding the word "figlio," The other documents have "suo figlio."
I also had no idea what the occupation of your ancestor was, as I've never seen occupations in church records. But titles do appear in the church records. As to your ancestor being a baker, and having a title, well, I agree, I have never found a baker with such a title. But there is a title in THIS Latin church record for him. Possibly he wasn't a baker at the time of this church record? Also some millers had titles as in "Maestro mugnaio." I had ancestors in Sicily who were millers and bakers (same family), sometimes alternating between the two occupations at different periods. So the two occupations were definitely related.
Also, you might be interested in info I had found, many years ago, when researching the occupation "baker:"
Originally private homes weren't equipped with ovens in which breads and other baked goods could be made. It wasn't until 1806, and the abolition of feudalism, that individual families started to construct ovens in their houses and having one actually became a distinctive sign of a family being well off. Regardless of whether the baker baked in a home, or in a shop, he would start baking at 1 a.m. and normally continue until 9 a.m. the same morning. So he worked through the night, while others were asleep. His bread always smelled up the house and was still warm when he rode his bicycle, with a basket in the front and in the back, to deliver his baked baked goods to his customers. Of course, nowadays the aromas and warmth of the freshly baked goods have been sacrificed to modern technology, as the baker's role is now to control the high tech bread machines, the programmable risings, and the computerized gas ovens.
Erudita
