Muglia family

[cgammaro]

Oh, and I forgot to say as well, 1895, Salvatore died and on that death certificate Domenico declared that he was married to Carolina and he was their son. So unless Domenico lied he was son of Carolina and Salvatore.

This birth certificate must exist somewhere.

[jennabet]

You have already stated that Domenico was born two years prior to the marriage of Salvatore and Carolina. If Carolina gave birth to him before their marriage, it would be indicated somewhere on the marriage certificate (probably a note in the margin, for example). Also it is unlikely that this girl Carolina was living away from her parent's home in another town and gave birth to Domenico in that town. Young women of Carolina's age during those times did not leave their parents homes except to get married. So she did not move somewhere with Salvatore before her marriage to him. And if she DID give birth to Domenico and then returned to her commune in San Lucido, which we know she did because she died there, the commune of San Lucido would have a record of Domenico's birth no matter where he was born. Carolina did not give birth to Domenico. You are going to have to find out who his mother is. I think he is Salvatore's son with another woman. A good reason for a separation, no? And yes, Domenico could have lied because he did not know who his mother was or because he was not allowed to say who his mother was. And who would find out if he lied anyway -- he was in Brazil. But you are finding out now because you started looking into the records.

[cgammaro]

I'm not sure about Domenico's age jennabet, I have an idea based on the information about his arrival in Brazil in 1888 says he was 10yo, so we would be born in 78, parents married in 79. However his marriage certificate say he was 26 in 1902, that would be birth in 76. So in other words dates as not confirmed, he can be born around 79 either before or after.

I'm not sure where Carolina died but it possible she indeed died in San Lucido, however the online documents are not available after 1910, if she was 39 in 1896, then she was around 53 in 1910 and theoretically if she lived longer that is why her death wasn't found.
1857 birth
1879 22 marriage
1896 39 communication of husband death sent by Domenico and she went to comune
1910 53 last online record available for San Lucido

I think that her death will be crucial to find the birth certificate, if he was her son it would be mentioned there right? If not then I can start from there to find who is the mother/father.

[jennabet]

No, the death certificate is not important because the commune would have a record of Domenico if Carolina gave birth to him -- and it doesn't matter where the birth took place. By the way, at age 39, she probably reported Salvator's death in Brazil to the San Lucido commune so that she would be free to marry again. I think she was totally alienated from the family in Brazil all those years because she is not Domenico's mother. You might even find another marriage record for her in San Lucido.

[cgammaro]

Hi all,

In the meantime while I'm waiting for the comune of San Lucido to reply, I cannot hold myself and want to search for the birth record. I found the following cities to be the closest to San Lucido.

Surrounding towns Distance
Falconara Albanese (CS) Km. 5.1
Paola (CS) Km. 5.7
San Fili (CS) Km. 8.5
Marano Principato (CS) Km. 10.7
Rende (CS) Km. 11.4

I see that only Falconara Albanese and Paola are the only available online in familysearch.org. Would you recommend a research in these catalogs?

What else can I do?

Regards,
Cesar

[cgammaro]

Hi jennabet,suanj,

I wrote to the San Lucido comune, to the local church and to the Archivi di Stato di Cosenza, waiting on their response still. That is over 40 days now.

Regards,
Cesar

[jennabet]

They may have been busy with the election which was just held on Sunday, March 4.

[cgammaro]

Hope at least when I get a reply I find anything relevant, I'm this close to find the birth cert of my great grandfather, EVERYTHING else was found, I have even my great great grandfather death cert, know where is his birth and marriage certs too, but missing my great grandfather birth. And actually this is the only document I need to request to the local italian consulate my citizenship. And because it takes about 10 years of waiting I would like to start that asap.

[cgammaro]

Hi jennabet,suanj,

I got a reply from Archivi di Stato di Cosenza stating that they haven't found the birth cert of my great grandfather,(non è emerso il nominativo da Lei indicato). I also wrote to the San Lucido comune, and to the local church. The comune haven't replied yet but considering the Archivi di Stato di Cosenza reply that they haven't found it shall I consider he wasn't born in that province? If you recall you couldn't find any info about him in the comune of San Lucido also. Local San Lucido parrocchia returned my letter.
I'm sorry to bug you but that information is key for my citizenship.

What do I do now?

Regards,
Cesar

[cgammaro]

omg so what could have happened? Domenico is their son and italian, what could we possible do to find his birth record?

This one is a LONG-SHOT, but keep it in your files...
I located ONE Gammaro male birth in 1877 in San Lucido. The child was the son of Raffaela Gammaro (27) and an unknown father. I have no idea what the relationship might be, or even if this is connected. The stretch would be that the child might be the son of a cousin of Salvatore? (she was the daughter of deceased Antonio) and he chose to raise it, or she died and he took it to raise? The problem is that the child's given name is Giovanni, not Domenico. Like I said... a long-shot, truly.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=2043464

T.

Hi Tessa78,

I was investigating this clue of yours and I think it is not valid but upon confirmation:

Record says that Raffaela Gammaro (27) and an unknown father had a son Giovanni, and she was the daughter of deceased Antonio.

Salvatore Gammaro had a brother named Antonio Fortunata, but he was born in 9 de Ago de 1861. So if Raffaela was daughter of Antonio and she had a baby when she was 27 and that was year 1877, she was born in 1850, that is before Domenico supposed father was born (Salvatore Fortunato Gammaro 4 de Abr de 1853).

So in other words she cannot be daugther of Antonio (Salvatore brother) maybe somebody else's family?

I think my best chance now is to find records related to the other family members, eventually this can give me other clues, what is your opinion?

Regards,
Cesar

[cgammaro]

omg so what could have happened? Domenico is their son and italian, what could we possible do to find his birth record?

This one is a LONG-SHOT, but keep it in your files...
I located ONE Gammaro male birth in 1877 in San Lucido. The child was the son of Raffaela Gammaro (27) and an unknown father. I have no idea what the relationship might be, or even if this is connected. The stretch would be that the child might be the son of a cousin of Salvatore? (she was the daughter of deceased Antonio) and he chose to raise it, or she died and he took it to raise? The problem is that the child's given name is Giovanni, not Domenico. Like I said... a long-shot, truly.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=2043464

T.

Hi Tessa78,

I know this posts are quite old, but I think I found maybe the same person you did however if that turns out to be true it is not my ancestor... Giovanni Gammaro, son of Raphaela Gammaro and Miguel (Michele) Gammaro.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... -L966-MLSH

He immigrated in 1946 so maybe it is not great grandfather but still, maybe we are not talking about same Giovanni.

Regards,
Cesar

[Tessa78]

This record does not provide any information (other than the mother being Raffaela Gammaro) to show that this is the same Giovanni in the birth record. ...or his possible connection to your ancestor.

Your search must continue.

T.

[cgammaro]

Hi,

I still haven't found anything conclusive but watching TV the other day they were showing a comune in the TV who researched for a given person. They showed the birth record but as well they have a record about the family departing to Brazil, they had dates etc so I'm wondering about two questions:

1. If you are resident of a comune in 1900 and is leaving to live abroad (immigrating to US, Brazil etc), would it be necessary to do paper work about that? So there are records about people that departed from that comune, maybe passport information etc?
2. If you are resident of a comune in 1900 and is leaving to live in a different city, to work for a land owner. Would you need to inform the comune that you are moving? Wondering if they keep these records will allow me to find out if the parents of my great grand father moved to X city, and eventually that X city will be the city that he was born and has his birth record.

Thanks in advance,
Cesar