Please Help! Which one is the correct guy?

[Pagano / Tria]

Ciao amici - Perhaps you could give me some advice?

I am researching my ancestor Giovanni "John" Abbenante of Scafati. Ship manifests from Sept and Nov 1905 list him as 52, and there are THREE possible matches in the Salerno archives (http://www.archiviodistatosalerno.benic ... t/index.ph…). How can I determine which is correct?

I can't find a marriage certificate to corroborate his parent's names. The Antenati site (http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... Matrimoni/) is missing 1873-75 and 1879-82, and 1817-78 didn't have him. (His first child was born either 1879 or 1880). I also can't find an American obituary, all I know is he died after 1917, probably in/near Derby, CT.

Technically the first one was born a few months late, but you know how sketchy these dates can be, so I'm not ruling it out. It is worth noting that my guy had children named Antonio and Caterina, so I feel like the middle one is correct, but that is a very tenuous indicator.

This is frustrating because I know if I can just get over this one hurdle I can likely find everything back to the 1700s as Scafati's records are much better prior to the Stato Civile Italiano era!

[Tessa78]

From the manifest lists (sailed and crossed out) in 1905 - it appears that Giovanni Abbenanti (52) and wife, Giovannina De Felice (49), had the following children:
~Giuseppe and Orlando (oldest sons?) who were already in USA (Derby, CT @ 44 Caroline St. or 25 Minor St. on the manifest) when the rest of the family immigrated
~Maria (18)
~Luigi (15)
~Giuseppa (11)
~Aniella (9)
~Rosa (3 or 5 depending on the manifest from Sept or Nov)
~Elisa (1)

September 1905
https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/74 ... PUBJs=true

November 1905
https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/74 ... PUBJs=true

October 1905
https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/74 ... PUBJs=true

I suggest you write directly to the Comune of Scafati and request Giovanni'a birth act

***
EDIT TO ADD

I know this does not help your search for Giovanni Abbenante's parents names... but here is the family in the 1910 US Census with the name GROSSLY misspelled.

Name: Orlando Basuentob
Age in 1910: 28
Birth Year: 1882
Birthplace: Italy
Home in 1910: Derby Ward 1, New Haven, Connecticut
Street: Lafayette Street
Race: White
Gender: Male
Immigration Year: 1903
Relation to Head of House: Son
Marital Status: Single
Father's Name: John Basuento
Father's Birthplace: Italy
Mother's Name: Jennie Basuento
Mother's Birthplace: Italy
Native Tongue: English
Occupation: Sewer
Industry: Machine Shop
Employer, Employee or Other: Wage Earner
Naturalization Status: Alien
Able to read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Out of Work: N
Number of Weeks Out of Work: 0
Household Members:
Name Age
John Basuento 61 [Giovanni}
Jennie Basuento 50 [Giovannina]
Joseph Basuentob 31 [Giuseppe]
Orlando Basuentob 28
Katie Basuento 23 [Caterina?]
Mary Basuento 22 [Mary]
Louis Basuento 19 [Luigi]
Josie Basuento 18 [Giuseppa]
Nellie Basuento 16 [Aniella]
Rosie Basuento 10 [Rosa]
Lizzie Basuento 8
https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/78 ... PUBJs=true


NOTE: Oldest son is Giuseppe... using naming traditions the father of Giovanni MIGHT be Giuseppe

In addition: You can probably "rule out" the Giovanni you found in the Salerno Archives whose father is Raffaele.
Here is the marriage of that Giovanni (son of Raffaele- born 1853/4) in 1877 to Lucia Gallo.
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... 0.jpg.html


T.

[Pagano / Tria]

I suggest you write directly to the Comune of Scafati and request Giovanni'a birth act

I know this does not help your search for Giovanni Abbenante's parents names... but here is the family in the 1910 US Census with the name GROSSLY misspelled.

NOTE: Oldest son is Giuseppe... using naming traditions the father of Giovanni MIGHT be Giuseppe

In addition: You can probably "rule out" the Giovanni you found in the Salerno Archives whose father is Raffaele.
Here is the marriage of that Giovanni (son of Raffaele- born 1853/4) in 1877 to Lucia Gallo.
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... 0.jpg.html


T.

WOW thank you! A few things:

Unfortunately the Scafati comune has been incredibly unhelpful - they sent me papers I needed for my jure sanguinis case super late AND sent the wrong things. Even if I reached out to them I wouldn't know which birth act to request, so I would have to request a marriage act, and I wouldn't know the date of that. This census said they married 32 years ago, so that could be any time between 1877-79. I flipped through every page of the non-indexed 1876-78 matrimoni archives and couldn't find them, so it must be in the missing 1879 book (1879-1882 are not available).

As for the 1910 census - great find! I'm finding the at least some of the Abbenante family changed their surname to some variation of Benanto at some point, and Basuentob must be Ancestry's confused interpretation of that, which is why I couldn't find it! How did you manage to find this?

Also brilliant work ruling out one of the Giovannis. Since my guy's oldest daughter is Caterina, I think it must be the only other one born technically born the correct year, whose mother is Caterina. Furthermore, they did have a son named Antonio as well, though he was born the 4th son, not 1st. That being said, this census says they have TWO dead children, so it is possible there was yet another Antonio born first, and they BOTH died before they came to America.

Any chance you might be able to find a marriage certificate ruling out the Giovanni di Luca e Cipriano Carolina? Do you think the naming custom connections + exact age are enough to make the call? Thanks so much!

[Tessa78]

continuing...

Here is the birth act of the "middle" Giovanni you found in the Salerno Archives. The one you think MAY be your Giovanni... I was hoping for a notation of marriage, but no. There is a witness to the record named Michele Di Felice, 30... but there are many Di Felice in the town.

He is the son of Antonio Abbenante (50) and of Caterina Fontana (38) - born on 8 April 1853
#121
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

Yes, it is possible there was an "earlier" Antonio born to the couple.
Unfortunately, the records are very sporadic... many missing.

T.

[Pagano / Tria]

continuing...

Here is the birth act of the "middle" Giovanni you found in the Salerno Archives. The one you think MAY be your Giovanni...
He is the son of Antonio Abbenante (50) and of Caterina Fontana (38) - born on 8 April 1853
#121
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

Thank you for the information about the POSSIBLE first Antonio I will look for him

T.

I have found the birth acts for all three, I just don't know which to follow! Also I edited the above comment to add some new info

[Tessa78]

Yes, many missing records.

You should write to the comune and ask for the marriage of Giovanni Abbenante and Giovannina De Felice.
Give a span of about 1877 - 1881... They will allow for a 5 year span.
The marriage will give your the parents of your Giovannni. (and possibly the grandfather )

T.

[Pagano / Tria]

Yes, many missing records.

You should write to the comune and ask for the marriage of Giovanni Abbenante and Giovannina De Felice.
Give a span of about 1877 - 1881... They will allow for a 5 year span.
The marriage will give your the parents of your Giovannni. (and possibly the grandfather )

T.

I had an Italian attorney request the birth and marriage certificates for my Pagano family with exact dates and it took them months later to send me only of the correct papers, along with two documents for different sons that I didn't need

If we can rule out the third Gio, and the first Gio is *technically* too young by a few months, I think I might be able to make the call that the middle Gio is correct, considering that they probably got married in the missing year of 1879 and then probably had a son named Antonio in that year or the next before Giuseppe was born in 1879 or 1880. This Antonio probably died before 1892, so they had another son Antonio then, who also died before they came to America (I put Bef. 1910). Their first daughter is Caterina, which would be correct. What do you think?

[Tessa78]

Too many "probably"
You need verification.

T.