1948 Case

[anzen]

I wanted to post my 1948 case here and see if anybody has had a successful case that is the same as mine and also to get the opinion of the regulars of this forum
GGGF: Born in 1854 in Italy, married in Italy, naturalized in the US in 1892.
GGGM: Born in 1862 in Italy, married in Italy, moved to the US with my GGGF.
Their son (my great grandfather) was born here in the US in 1897.

[Valicore]

Do you know what the evidence is for your GGGF's naturalization is? The likelihood of your grandmother having naturalized via her own petition is basically zero, as citizenship was granted derivationally - women almost never applied for citizenship on their own at the time because they obtained in automatically through their husband. This works in your favor.

I recently consulted with a lawyer about a similar situation. He said he's seen Italian judges approve cases like this because depriving a woman of her Italian citizenship because of her husband's naturalization is likely to be ruled gender discrimination by the Italian Court of Cassation. It would really depend on what the evidence of naturalization is for your GGGF and GGGM!

Good luck!

Thomas

[mler]

Since women were not permitted to naturalize on their own behalf before 1922, this approach should work.

[anzen]

Since women were not permitted to naturalize on their own behalf before 1922, this approach should work.

This is what I thought as well but then I found this article by an Italian attorney, the new approach he speaks of seems to be what my case is.
https://www.mylawyerinitaly.com/dual-ci ... t-of-rome/

[mler]

Yes, there were several instances last year in which 1948 petitioners were denied because the naturalization of a female ancestor took place before the child reached the age of majority. I’ve not heard of this happening recently, and I think this may have been an aberration. Most people who have studied the law agreed that this interpretation was inaccurate.

More to the point is your gggf’s naturalization before 1912. Before that law was enacted, naturalization by the father caused the loss of Italian citizenship for all his minor children (including those born in a jus soli country before his naturalization).

You would be attempting to apply through your gggm, who never naturalized on her own behalf (she could not have naturalized in the US before the 1922 Cable Act). Since she never herself naturalized, she retained her Italian citizenship and could pass it to her children.

This approach has been successful in a number of cases. However, it is important that you consult with a 1948 attorney to ensure that a case through your gggm is not superseded by an interpretation of pre 1912 law.

To clarify further, your gggm never became a naturalized citizen of the US; she acquired her citizenship automatically through her husband’s naturalization—a subtle, but significant difference.

[anzen]

Yes, there were several instances last year in which 1948 petitioners were denied because the naturalization of a female ancestor took place before the child reached the age of majority. I’ve not heard of this happening recently, and I think this may have been an aberration. Most people who have studied the law agreed that this interpretation was inaccurate.

More to the point is your gggf’s naturalization before 1912. Before that law was enacted, naturalization by the father caused the loss of Italian citizenship for all his minor children (including those born in a jus soli country before his naturalization).

You would be attempting to apply through your gggm, who never naturalized on her own behalf (she could not have naturalized in the US before the 1922 Cable Act). Since she never herself naturalized, she retained her Italian citizenship and could pass it to her children.

This approach has been successful in a number of cases. However, it is important that you consult with a 1948 attorney to ensure that a case through your gggm is not superseded by an interpretation of pre 1912 law.

To clarify further, your gggm never became a naturalized citizen of the US; she acquired her citizenship automatically through her husband’s naturalization—a subtle, but significant difference.

Thank you for the detailed response.
You said: "However, it is important that you consult with a 1948 attorney to ensure that a case through your gggm is not superseded by an interpretation of pre 1912 law."
How can you ensure that the case is not superseded by an interpretation of pre 1912 law?

This is a rather strange process that people who go through a 1948 case have to follow.
Does a judge not look at other cases that would be identical to this one and think "these were all approved, so why not this one?"
It's rather unfair for people who have been denied while others with identical cases have been approved.
Does this not mean that if a one's 1948 case is denied, they could bring up the same case again with maybe a different attorney and just hope for a different judge?

I wonder what the future holds for this law.
Perhaps the Italian government will begin allowing jure sanguinis cases through female ancestors one day or they'll completely do away with citizenship by descent all together.

[mler]

You can never be sure because, like the situation you linked, there is always the possibility of a surprise ruling. Unlike in the US, established precedent is not a feature of Italian law.

Yes, this does mean a degree of uncertainty. However, for the most part, lawyers who are handling 1948 cases have a good understanding of what judges accept and what they do not accept in terms of a woman passing citizenship to her children.

You should contact several of them, present your dates and factual information, and see what they say. If they tell you it looks good, the odds are you will be fine.

FWIW, I think you have a viable case.

[anzen]

You can never be sure because, like the situation you linked, there is always the possibility of a surprise ruling. Unlike in the US, established precedent is not a feature of Italian law.

Yes, this does mean a degree of uncertainty. However, for the most part, lawyers who are handling 1948 cases have a good understanding of what judges accept and what they do not accept in terms of a woman passing citizenship to her children.

You should contact several of them, present your dates and factual information, and see what they say. If they tell you it looks good, the odds are you will be fine.

FWIW, I think you have a viable case.

Ah I neglected to say that I already have started the process.
I am going through ICA with Marco Permunian and Andrea Permunian.
Anybody reading this gone through ICA?
We are in the process now of gathering all my documents so they can file the case.

When I first spoke to Marco about the case before I initiated it, he told me that my case is atypical of most 1948 cases but gave me a chance of 80% success.
He told me that he did not want to say 100% because although they've won all of the 8 cases they've had like this in the past two years (four of them being this year), it is still an uncertain process.

[mler]

Not surprised. Best of luck.

[lsitkin]

You can never be sure because, like the situation you linked, there is always the possibility of a surprise ruling. Unlike in the US, established precedent is not a feature of Italian law.

Yes, this does mean a degree of uncertainty. However, for the most part, lawyers who are handling 1948 cases have a good understanding of what judges accept and what they do not accept in terms of a woman passing citizenship to her children.

You should contact several of them, present your dates and factual information, and see what they say. If they tell you it looks good, the odds are you will be fine.

FWIW, I think you have a viable case.

Ah I neglected to say that I already have started the process.
I am going through ICA with Marco Permunian and Andrea Permunian.
Anybody reading this gone through ICA?
We are in the process now of gathering all my documents so they can file the case.

When I first spoke to Marco about the case before I initiated it, he told me that my case is atypical of most 1948 cases but gave me a chance of 80% success.
He told me that he did not want to say 100% because although they've won all of the 8 cases they've had like this in the past two years (four of them being this year), it is still an uncertain process.

Could you tell me what ICA stands for and how much your lawyers quoted you for their service? I am thinking about filing a 1948 case but I don’t have a lawyer yet and I have no idea what is a reasonable amount. Thanks!

[afecad]

Could you tell me what ICA stands for and how much your lawyers quoted you for their service? I am thinking about filing a 1948 case but I don’t have a lawyer yet and I have no idea what is a reasonable amount. Thanks!

"ICA" is:

https://italiancitizenshipassistance.com/

I have been in discussions with them for over 2 months, they are currently backlogged so inquiries do take time, but they will respond and will detail the options available to use them in many ways to gain Italian Citizenship. I'm planning on using them but it will cost upwards of $10K with no 100% guarantee. I will likely be doing a 1948 case through my Great-Grandmother, since my Great-Grandfather claimed citizenship prior to 1912 on census records. That alone not having actual NARA documents proving he did was enough for them to say I must use my great-grandmother.

ICA has great reviews on several sites, they are also Lawyers and basically offer at the top package, everything aside from you going to your local consulate to finish the process. It may take upwards of 1 to 2 years if not more, I was told and read as long as 5 in one case to complete, but they have a decent success rate and shared lot's of info and details.

I think the complexity of 1948 cases warrants the expense, likely would go a different route if it wasn't the case.

The nice thing is, they offer in the package, not only citizenship assistance to you, but siblings, parents and adult children at not extra cost.

[surfer]

Hi,
I realize this post is a couple years old, but I'm about to enter an agreement with ICA (Italian Citizenship Assistance) and just wanted to ask how your case with them went? Would you recommend them?
thanks!