angela, cedrone
well I learn even more with each post.
Did not even think about the concept of publication of marriage before the wedding.
It struck me that they were both kind of up there in age, to be getting married Giacomo at 34 and Caterina at 29.
Bob
Magnino - Sparone, Piedmont
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AngelaGrace56
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Re: Magnino - Sparone, Piedmont
Just to clarify and add some more info re marriage banns:
The marriage pubblications (which declare a couple’s intent to marry) are basically marriage banns and they go by different names at different times (pubblicazioni, notificazioni, memorandum).
The reason for these documents, which were posted on the door of the Town Hall prior to the marriage, was to ensure that there were no known impediments to the marriage taking place, e.g. a spouse may have already been married.
They are a fantastic backup if you can’t find an actual marriage record (Atto di Matrimonio), or if you think the bride may have been born in another town. (Generally the marriage took place in the bride’s birth town, but the pubblications were posted in both bride and grooms respective birth towns.) The publications sometimes provide information about the parents of the bride and groom (e.g. their age and occupation) that the marriage record might not, so I always look for both in my own research. (If you check both the marriage record and pubblication that I have posted here, you will notice that the pubblication does in fact contain more detail about the parents of the spouses than the marriage record.)
The reason for these documents, which were posted on the door of the Town Hall, was to ensure that there were no known impediments to the marriage taking place, e.g. a spouse may have already been married.
Angela
The marriage pubblications (which declare a couple’s intent to marry) are basically marriage banns and they go by different names at different times (pubblicazioni, notificazioni, memorandum).
The reason for these documents, which were posted on the door of the Town Hall prior to the marriage, was to ensure that there were no known impediments to the marriage taking place, e.g. a spouse may have already been married.
They are a fantastic backup if you can’t find an actual marriage record (Atto di Matrimonio), or if you think the bride may have been born in another town. (Generally the marriage took place in the bride’s birth town, but the pubblications were posted in both bride and grooms respective birth towns.) The publications sometimes provide information about the parents of the bride and groom (e.g. their age and occupation) that the marriage record might not, so I always look for both in my own research. (If you check both the marriage record and pubblication that I have posted here, you will notice that the pubblication does in fact contain more detail about the parents of the spouses than the marriage record.)
The reason for these documents, which were posted on the door of the Town Hall, was to ensure that there were no known impediments to the marriage taking place, e.g. a spouse may have already been married.
Angela
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AngelaGrace56
- Master
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Re: Magnino - Sparone, Piedmont
Following on from my previous post here about marriage banns, I've extracted the vital info from the marriage record and pubblication:
Marriage Act: No 4: Giacomo Magnino and Maria Caterina Magnin-Prino
Sparone: 15 March 1886
Appearing were:
Groom: Giacomo Magnino, 34 yo, muratore (bricklayer), born and residing in Sparone, the son of Gioanni Matteo (Magnino), and of Maria Marianna Picco, who both resided in Sparone.
Bride: Maria Caterina Magnin-Prino, 29 yo, contadina, born and residing in Sparone, daughter of Gioanni Battista (Magnin-Prino) and of Maria Maddalena Feira Cottino, both residing in Sparone.
Extra Info re the respective parents taken from Pubblication:
Gioanni Matteo Magnino was 70 yo, muratore, and Maria Marianna Picco was a contadina (peasant/farmer).
Gioanni Battista was also 70 yo, a contadino and Maria Maddalena Feirra Cottino likewise a contadina.
At the base of the record there is some extra information which has been attracted from the marriage allegati (attachments):
The groom was born on 31 October 1851.
The bride was born on 2 February 1857.
The groom’s previous wife died on 10 May 1884. Her name was Maria Lucia Blessent.
Here’s her Death Record No 29: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1475996
I’ll leave you to look for the Giacomo’s first marriage and any children born to him and Maria Lucia. If you look here, just use the 10 year indices (Indici decennali) to search, which will give you the year and the Act No: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1475996
The indices are much clearer to read than the records but do ask if you need any help. You can also post the records for translation – just post the link to the online record like cedrone and I have done. (The script in your records are quite tricky to read in places.)
Angela
Marriage Act: No 4: Giacomo Magnino and Maria Caterina Magnin-Prino
Sparone: 15 March 1886
Appearing were:
Groom: Giacomo Magnino, 34 yo, muratore (bricklayer), born and residing in Sparone, the son of Gioanni Matteo (Magnino), and of Maria Marianna Picco, who both resided in Sparone.
Bride: Maria Caterina Magnin-Prino, 29 yo, contadina, born and residing in Sparone, daughter of Gioanni Battista (Magnin-Prino) and of Maria Maddalena Feira Cottino, both residing in Sparone.
Extra Info re the respective parents taken from Pubblication:
Gioanni Matteo Magnino was 70 yo, muratore, and Maria Marianna Picco was a contadina (peasant/farmer).
Gioanni Battista was also 70 yo, a contadino and Maria Maddalena Feirra Cottino likewise a contadina.
At the base of the record there is some extra information which has been attracted from the marriage allegati (attachments):
The groom was born on 31 October 1851.
The bride was born on 2 February 1857.
The groom’s previous wife died on 10 May 1884. Her name was Maria Lucia Blessent.
Here’s her Death Record No 29: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1475996
I’ll leave you to look for the Giacomo’s first marriage and any children born to him and Maria Lucia. If you look here, just use the 10 year indices (Indici decennali) to search, which will give you the year and the Act No: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1475996
The indices are much clearer to read than the records but do ask if you need any help. You can also post the records for translation – just post the link to the online record like cedrone and I have done. (The script in your records are quite tricky to read in places.)
Angela
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bobsmodels1
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- Joined: 02 Aug 2021, 20:54
Re: Magnino - Sparone, Piedmont
Angela
Wow! That sure filled in a lot of info.
I went ahead and took your advice on trying to find the marriage act for Giacomo’s first marriage. I went to the indici and found them on this page:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1475996
Left page 6 up from the bottom, which stated 1876 act 16.
I went to marriage registration, 1876 and could not find it. I went back to the indici and looked up the three other Magnino’s in 1876 and found all three of them. Since I was not reading Itailian numbers just counting over to get to the act, I did not notice that it looks like the page containing act 15 and 16 is missing. I deduced this by the handwritten number in the upper left of the open book showing two pages, there is 1 to 8 then it jumps to 10 etc. It looks like they missed page 9. Page 9 would have had act 15 and 16.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1475996
I think I did all the steps correctly. I will just scan the birth indici to look for children and the pubblicazioni for a possible entry.
Could you let me know if I am on the right track, and my deduction of a missing page is correct?
I will continue pursuing this as it will be a good learning exercise for me.
I assume that the posts after the actual location of my grandfather’s birth was found would normally have been in the Italian Genealogy forum – is that correct? If I get stuck I will ask questions in that forum, rather than this thread. Looks like there is a translations forum for help in that department.
Really appreciate all the assistance
Bob
Wow! That sure filled in a lot of info.
I went ahead and took your advice on trying to find the marriage act for Giacomo’s first marriage. I went to the indici and found them on this page:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1475996
Left page 6 up from the bottom, which stated 1876 act 16.
I went to marriage registration, 1876 and could not find it. I went back to the indici and looked up the three other Magnino’s in 1876 and found all three of them. Since I was not reading Itailian numbers just counting over to get to the act, I did not notice that it looks like the page containing act 15 and 16 is missing. I deduced this by the handwritten number in the upper left of the open book showing two pages, there is 1 to 8 then it jumps to 10 etc. It looks like they missed page 9. Page 9 would have had act 15 and 16.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1475996
I think I did all the steps correctly. I will just scan the birth indici to look for children and the pubblicazioni for a possible entry.
Could you let me know if I am on the right track, and my deduction of a missing page is correct?
I will continue pursuing this as it will be a good learning exercise for me.
I assume that the posts after the actual location of my grandfather’s birth was found would normally have been in the Italian Genealogy forum – is that correct? If I get stuck I will ask questions in that forum, rather than this thread. Looks like there is a translations forum for help in that department.
Really appreciate all the assistance
Bob
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AngelaGrace56
- Master
- Posts: 7454
- Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 10:54
Re: Magnino - Sparone, Piedmont
Fantastic!!! You’ve got it. Yes, unfortunately the marriage record is missing. For some reason it hasn’t been microfilmed. It happens sometimes. Yes, look for the pubblication. It won’t necessarily be No 16 though but it’s a good starting point. Look either side of No 16 if it isn’t. While it won’t give you the exact marriage date, it will give you lots of other vital info.
If you do have questions relating to this thread, then do ask them here. If you have unrelated questions then start a new thread wherever it fits. (Often we get people asking exactly the same question on different forums which can waste our time.) If you are requiring translations for records just post the link to the online record on the translation forum. If you want to keep this thread altogether then it’s fine to post them here. I have a commitment today so won’t be able to look at any translations until much later.
Angela
If you do have questions relating to this thread, then do ask them here. If you have unrelated questions then start a new thread wherever it fits. (Often we get people asking exactly the same question on different forums which can waste our time.) If you are requiring translations for records just post the link to the online record on the translation forum. If you want to keep this thread altogether then it’s fine to post them here. I have a commitment today so won’t be able to look at any translations until much later.
Angela
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AngelaGrace56
- Master
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- Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 10:54
Re: Magnino - Sparone, Piedmont
Whoops - See previous post.
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bobsmodels1
- Newbie
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Re: Magnino - Sparone, Piedmont
zhdan
May I make a suggestion. no one is likely to look in this thread and see your request. You might want to start a new thread in Locations, similar to mine. That is surname, town. That way people will home in on it directly. You did not list the surname, be sure you include that.
Good Luck
Bob
May I make a suggestion. no one is likely to look in this thread and see your request. You might want to start a new thread in Locations, similar to mine. That is surname, town. That way people will home in on it directly. You did not list the surname, be sure you include that.
Good Luck
Bob
