Help with 2nd GGM Birth Record - shorthand VITA

[bmorocco]

Greetings,

Perhaps I've just been very lucky so far, but using Antenati & Family Search library, I've been able to find birth records for everyone I've looked for so far... Even finding my 2nd GGF who was born with the name Girolamo IGNOTO, and who was later given the name Carini.

On the trail for his eventual spouse, I've hit upon the marriage record. Her name in those records is given as Maria Asciuto (sp?). Father Pietro and mother Giussepina Di Miceli...

I have the marriage record from the library - so attached as a snippet here

marriage-snip.png

My question is about deciphering HER Birth record - Antenati link below - where I believe her name is given as simply VITA ASCIUTO.

Is "Vita" somehow a shorthand used for when a name is not given immediately? Or am I way off base in tying the antenati record to this bride?

Thanks in advance for help in deciphering the Birth Record.





Archivio di Stato di Palermo > Stato civile della restaurazione > Solanto(oggi Santa Flavia) > 1857
PG 143 of 169:

https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... JX?lang=en

[suanj]

Abt Girolamo his birth was recorded as son of CARINI Vincenza and unknown father ( IGNOTO= unknown. Ignoto is no a surname); so Girolamo born in Porticello of Santa Flavia and recognized just from his mother, and he had his mother's maiden name.

[suanj]

abt Maria ASCIUTTO, her first name was Maria and no Vita, and the civil records officer write the names by birth certificates, given at marriage bann's time and no by what the fiancés say.

[bmorocco]

Thank you!
I understood the meaning of the Ignoto. I am just trying to decipher the Birth Certificate.

SO you are saying that the name is written Maria? I guess I just need more practice reading the cursive writing.

[suanj]

It is wrote Maria clearly..

[AngelaGrace56]

Thank you!
I understood the meaning of the Ignoto. I am just trying to decipher the Birth Certificate.

SO you are saying that the name is written Maria? I guess I just need more practice reading the cursive writing.

I just want to clarify something for you. The marriage record clearly states Maria Asciutto, as suanj has said. However, the 1857 Birth Record that you have posted is not for a Maria Asciutto. It is for a Vita Asciutto, (also written in the index), daughter of Pietro Asciutto, 30 yo, and his wife Giuseppa Miceli.

The marriage snippet you have posted (it's always best to post the complete record) is between:

Girolamo Carini, 25 yo, born and residing in Porticello, the son of Ignoto (i.e. father unknown), and of Vincenza Carini, residing Porticello.
And
Maria Asciutto, 22 yo, born and residing Porticello, daughter of Pietro and Giuseppa Mecieli (sp? likely meant to read Miceli), residing Porticello.

Can you please post the complete Marriage Record to see what the official has written further down the document. Thanks.

The birth record you posted, might possibily be the sister of Maria Asciutto or the official has written the incorrect given name from the Birth Certificate to the marriage record. Further research is needed. Looking for birth records for children born to Girolamo Carini and .... Asciuto would help verify. Looking for Girolamo's death record would also help to verify. Unfortunately, it looks like a lot of records have to be researched at a Family History Centre or Affiliate Library though.


Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

In case you don't have the full marriage record here it is:

1877 Marriage Record No 20: Girolamo Carini and Maria Asciutto:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=2051639

This looks like the birth of their first child:

Birth No 144 – Giuseppa Carini

Registered in Solanto: 6 October 1877

Girolamo Carini, 25 yo, zaglio....?, living this town, reported that at 12 noon, on 5 October 1877, from his wife Maria Asciutto, was born a baby girl who he presented and gave the name of Giuseppa.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... 24M4?i=178

So, it seems like you haven't located the correct birth record. (Or the official may have copied the wrong name, but probably less likely.)

Angela

[bmorocco]

Thank you Suanj & Angela,

I have the full marriage record (and that other birth record) - That was the latest find at the research library... That is what made me think that this VITA was perhaps whom I was seeking... and that perhaps VITA (life) was some sort of code...

It seems I will have to dig some more... into 1855 (which is on antenati ) and look more closely for Maria...

Anyway, I am fee;ing on more solid ground after the Ignoto Carini has become Girolamo.

He emigrated with her and He became- Jerome or Jim.

I will go back into 1855, and hope they were both in Solanto at that time and look for Maria birth.

[AngelaGrace56]

Happy to help. I did go through various birth records yesterday either side of 1855 looking for Maria Asciutto but didn't see any other children born to Pietro and Giuseppa, but that's not to say they are not there. (For some reason the site kept skipping pages so I might have missed it.) There were some indices missing and so I went page by page, and other years had the indices not at the end of the year, and some of the indices didn't include the surnames, they just had the Record number written under the appropriate letter in the index, if that makes sense. Because I knew Girolamo's year of birth from another post, and saw that his age was 25 when he married I was able to estimate his year of marriage so the marriage record wasn't a hard find. I thought you probably might have it but decided to post just in case the snippet came from an online tree. Best to you with this. I hope you find her

Edit to Add: Re "Vita" it is an Italian given name for girls, as is "Vito" a name given to boys.

Angela

[bmorocco]

Hi Angela,

I just did the same! I went through 1855 & 1856 in Solanto and also came up empty...

Perhaps you can help me with a side issue - What is the profession given in these documents? Most of my family I have found were all listed as Contadino -a term I learned quickly.

And this Pietro especially I keep hearing from family was a member of the court in Naples.

Interested because I did find this record which I think has a DIFFERENT Pietro - age 42? as father...

https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... Vv?lang=en

[AngelaGrace56]

Hi Angela,

I just did the same! I went through 1855 & 1856 in Solanto and also came up empty...

Perhaps you can help me with a side issue - What is the profession given in these documents? Most of my family I have found were all listed as Contadino -a term I learned quickly.

And this Pietro especially I keep hearing from family was a member of the court in Naples.

Interested because I did find this record which I think has a DIFFERENT Pietro - age 42? as father...

https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... Vv?lang=en

The script in some of these documents is quite challenging. I would say pescatore, and if that is correct he was a 43 yo fisherman.

Re Maria's father, Pietro Asciutto, it doesn't have his profession in her marriage record, but I would think that if he was a member of the court in Naples, then he might have a title before his name and I don't see one. It's too bad that the publications arn't included on that film, as they often provide extra info about the parents of the bride and groom. They are suppose to be on that film but they are not there. If you could find Pietro and Giuseppa's marriage record that would be helpful as that would have his occupation on it. I did search but I didn't find it so maybe Giuseppa was born in another town. Generally the marriage takes place in the bride's birth town, but banns (pubblications) are posted in both bride and groom's respective birth town.

I've had another look at Girolamo Carini's occupation. I thought it started with a z. I think it might read Tagliapietro and if so then he was a stonecutter. Maybe someone else can take a look.

Angela

[mmogno]

...

I've had another look at Girolamo Carini's occupation. I thought it started with a z. I think it might read Tagliapietro and if so then he was a stonecutter. Maybe someone else can take a look.

Angela

@AngelaGrace56
I agree: Tagliapietra

[AngelaGrace56]

...

I've had another look at Girolamo Carini's occupation. I thought it started with a z. I think it might read Tagliapietro and if so then he was a stonecutter. Maybe someone else can take a look.

Angela

@AngelaGrace56
I agree: Tagliapietra

Thank you for confirming, and also for the correction, G. I'm not sure why I wrote 'o' instead of 'a' at the end.

Angela