Giccominato, Giuseppe (Francofonte, SR) Carabinieri

[apitaloaus]

Ciao a tutti.

My bis nonno, Giuseppe Giccominato (could also be spelled Giacominato) lived approx from 1885 - 1945.
He was in the Carabinieri.

His wife was Maria Cunsolo (1897 - 1976). They got married in 1913 or 1914. They had 5 boys. (Sebastiano 1914, Carmelo 1922, , Giovanni 1924, Salvatore 1928, Rosario 1931)

I'm trying to find his year of birth and death. Also, his parents names would be nice to know (i'm almost certain his father's name was Sebastiano).

I looked on Antenati for his birth record between 1880 - 1900 but could not find him. Only 3 potential siblings (Crestina 1895, Angela 1897 and Paolo 1899).

Is there somewhere I can search to find him - Military? Marriage record? Carabinieri? Death notice?

I want to find out before I visit Francofonte for the first time next month and hopefully he is at the local cemetary.
See photo of his potrait attached.

Grazie Mille!

[PippoM]

I've found the marriage record of one Sebastiano Giccominato in 1893

https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... 20/04V4ebe

He was unmarried, and the son of unknown parents. So, my guess that these are Giuseppe's parents, as it is likely that this is the only existing Giccominato family. If so, Giuseppe must have been born in 1894, but he is not in the register. So, he might have been born in some neighbouring town.

[apitaloaus]

Grazie Mille Pippo!

This is definitely his parents.
It is such a shame I can’t find anything about Giuseppe’s birth or life.

I really want to know when he was born and died and if he is in Francofonte cemetary so I can visit him when i’m there in about 2 weeks.

I wrote to the Carabinieri and waiting on a reply.
However, i’ve also written to the military who say they don’t have anything as I need to write to the State Archives which i did but they said they can’t do anything without a date of birth!

Can anyone help point me in the right direction?

[PippoM]

You can try here:

https://archiviodistatosiracusa.cultura ... i-siracusa

I looked in 1894, but couldn't find him.

[apitaloaus]

Grazie Pippo, I appreciate your help

[apitaloaus]

I have a feeling he was adopted.

He is not on the birth records like all his siblings.
Also, his children’s names are all spelled GIAcominato not GICcominato on official documents.

Unless there is some other explanation…

[AngelaGrace56]

I have a feeling he was adopted.

He is not on the birth records like all his siblings.
Also, his children’s names are all spelled GIAcominato not GICcominato on official documents.

Unless there is some other explanation…

I understand he was raised by his parents. Read below.


There is a bit of a twist to your story that you may not know about.

You have confirmed that Sebastiano Giacominato aka Giccominato (and now also aka Giccone) and Rosaria Salemi are your Giuseppe Giacominato’s parents and that the marriage record posted here belongs to his parents. From reading the marriage record posted here, I am understanding that the following birth record is your bisnonno's. He was born before Sebastiano and Rosaria married, as were other children, and only one of those, children, Alfio, was given the surname Giacominato. It looks like the others were given the surname Giccone. I’d have to locate the birth acts to be sure. (Personally, I believe the correct name is Giacominato, too, which was an invented name, given to Sebastiano at birth. We would need to see his birth record to be certain though.) It seems like Sebastiano (who was born in Lentini btw so that’s where you might find his birth act) and Rosaria, for whatever reason, lived in a commonlaw type marriage before their wedding in 1893.

1887 Birth No 266: Giuseppe Giccone

Recorded 29 Sept 1887, Francofonte

Appearing was Sebastiano Giccone son of unknown parents, 27 yo, manovale (labourer), living this town. He reported that at 4.56 pm on 28th in the house in Vico Pante Terzo, no number, from Rosaria Salemi, daughter of deceased Giuseppe, his wife, a contadina, living with him, was born a baby boy who he presented and gave the name Giuseppe. (Sebastiano was illiterate, so maybe didn’t know how to spell his name?)
https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... 03/0J3Xg4B

I haven't got time at the minute but will look later for the birth records of syblings Maria and Alfio and post them here.

Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

Following on from my previous post here, in which I have included your bisnonno's birth record, here are the birth records of two more of Sebastiano G. and Rosaria Salemi's children, born to them before they married, as noted in their marriage record:

Their first child was born on 17 November 1881 and was left at the wheel. She was given the name Fidenzina Simpatica. They were recognizing her as their own and legitimising her birth through the marriage
No 15, Part II: https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... 45/0J3x34Q


Maria Giccone, daughter of Sebastiano Giccone - the son of unknown parents, 32 yo, industrioso, and his wife Rosaria Salemi, daughter of deceased Giuseppe, living with him (ie Sebastiano), was born on 25 September 1892. There is a side note that says on 9 December 1911 Maria “Giacominato” marries in Francofonte, with Giovanni Tribastone, so obviously her surname was changed after she was legitimized. (The name could also read Giccominato, it's not clear.)
https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... 09/0J3XgE2


Alfio Giacominato was reported to have been born on 25 November 1889 but his record is not there. I’ll take another look later to see if I can locate it. I notice they had Maria's birth date recorded incorrectly.

(You may be in Italia by now. I hope you are having wonderful time.)

Angela

[apitaloaus]

That is amazing Angela and I thank you so much for your help, you’re fantastic.

All this information gives lots to understand!

I am in Rome now and will be in Sicily on the weekend. I can’t wait to visit where my family is from!
I wish I had my laptop as it’s very hard to do research on my phone.

On Sebastiano’s marriage certificate, it clearly shows his surname to be GICcominato. So it’s just strange that his son Giuseppe ended up with GIAcominato after initially being called Giccone.

His siblings born 1895 Crestina, 1897 Angela, 1899 Paolo all were given the surname GICcominato according to the birth records I found.

It will be interesting to try make sense of the origins of the family surname. To give you more context, my nonno Rosario (son on Giuseppe) used the name GICcominato. However, that only seemed to occur once he moved to Australia - in italy all his records had GIAcominato. His other 4 brothers used a mixture of the 2 names in Australia. It’s very confusing for the whole family and arguments about who has the true correct spelling haha!

Was it common for children who’s parents were not married to get a made up name? Just like that of my bis nonno Giuseppe Giccone?

Also, I find it very strange that they adopted Fidenza Simpatica in 1881 when Rosaria would have been no older than 7 years old herself. Have I interpreted incorrectly? I assumed Rosaria was born about 1874 by counting back the years from her marriage certificate.

I’m looking forward to seeing what else you can dig up!

[AngelaGrace56]

That is amazing Angela and I thank you so much for your help, you’re fantastic.

All this information gives lots to understand!

I am in Rome now and will be in Sicily on the weekend. I can’t wait to visit where my family is from!
I wish I had my laptop as it’s very hard to do research on my phone.

On Sebastiano’s marriage certificate, it clearly shows his surname to be GICcominato. So it’s just strange that his son Giuseppe ended up with GIAcominato after initially being called Giccone.

His siblings born 1895 Crestina, 1897 Angela, 1899 Paolo all were given the surname GICcominato according to the birth records I found.

It will be interesting to try make sense of the origins of the family surname. To give you more context, my nonno Rosario (son on Giuseppe) used the name GICcominato. However, that only seemed to occur once he moved to Australia - in italy all his records had GIAcominato. His other 4 brothers used a mixture of the 2 names in Australia. It’s very confusing for the whole family and arguments about who has the true correct spelling haha! I can only imagine!!!

Was it common for children who’s parents were not married to get a made up name? Just like that of my bis nonno Giuseppe Giccone?

Also, I find it very strange that they adopted Fidenzina Simpatica in 1881 when Rosaria would have been no older than 7 years old herself. Have I interpreted incorrectly? I assumed Rosaria was born about 1874 by counting back the years from her marriage certificate.

I’m looking forward to seeing what else you can dig up!

Yes, it is amazing, and a lovely story really, that Sebastiano and Rosaria’s love for each other stood the test of time, and that they were eventually able to marry, and also recognize their first child as their own.

I’ll spend some time reviewing what you have said here, and also some of the documents that I’ve posted when I have a minute. (I’ve been struggling with a head cold for over a week so want to go back and ensure I haven’t missed anything.) Meanwhile, I just want to set a couple of things you have touched on here, straight.

First, there was no adoption involved at all. They did not adopt Fidenzina Simpatica. She was their biological daughter. Sebastiano and Rosaria claimed her as their own when they married and also legitmised her. She was also the only child that was given a made up name. (Made up names (unique names) were given to foundlings/abandoned children, by the official at the town hall, when baby was registered.) (Some of the names were really horrible – sadly children who were abbandoned were considered the lowest of the low, and many didn’t survive. There is no mention on the birth record of who the parents were, she was left at the foundling home with some items (which would have been a big part of how her parents (not named) were later able to recognise her as their own. (I’d suggest that it Rosaria and Sebastiano intended to claim her as their own when they were in a position to.) Her birth was registered by the “receiver of the foundlings”. (You might like to have the record translated on our translations section when you return from Italia.)

Rosaria was 29 in 1893 when she married, so she would have been seventeenish when Fidenzina was born, not 7.

Your bisnonno Giuseppe Giccone, was not given a made-up name. The name Giccone was an error – possibly an intended error. My thinking is that because Sebastiano was unable to read and write, and the invented surname Giccominato/Giacominato was such a mouthful, it was easier to go by a simpler name like Giccone. I don’t know what his reason was. It seems like it was intentional because he registered two children, calling himself Sebastiano Giccone. Or maybe he wanted to get away from the stigma of being a “foundling”. Foundlings were not treated very well and were referred to “b......s” etc. I'm also wondering whether, because of his status, Rosaria's parents wouldn't allow him to marry her, yet it does seem like they lived together. Don't know. I'll go back and check the addresses of where the baby's were born. I'm pretty sure they were all the same place but maybe not.

Anyways all for now. Have a wonderful time in Sicily and don't spend all day on the beach like my friends do. Enjoy the history!!!


Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

[quote=apitaloaus post_id=333891 time=1689342088 user_id=75870

............


It will be interesting to try make sense of the origins of the family surname. To give you more context, my nonno Rosario (son on Giuseppe) used the name GICcominato. However, that only seemed to occur once he moved to Australia - in italy all his records had GIAcominato. His other 4 brothers used a mixture of the 2 names in Australia. It’s very confusing for the whole family and arguments about who has the true correct spelling haha!

.............

I’m looking forward to seeing what else you can dig up!



Well, after finding his birth record today, I can now confirm that the surname given to Sebastiano was GICcominato. Best to you breaking the news to the pro Giacominato's.


Birth Act No 7 of the Foundling Sebastiano Giccominato
https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... 98/5Ypjj8v

Date of Record – 27 March 1861, 4 pm, town of Lentini

Appearing before the official was Serafina d’Angelo, 47 yo, pubblica ruotaia (bascially she was the receiver of the foundlings). She presented a baby boy who had been born from unknown parents and left at the foundling wheel on 27 March. The baby was given the name Sebastiano Giccominato. When you get back from Italia, you may want to have the whole record translated on our translations forum.

You might find the following interesting and informative re foundings: http://www.conigliofamily.com/Foundlings.htm

There is also a really good book by David I Kertzer called "Sacrificed for Honor" which is very telling.

All for now.

Angela

[apitaloaus]

Thank you so much Angela, this all means so much to me!

So I guess then after the marriage of Sebastiano and Rosaria that Giuseppe had his surname changed to either GIAcominato or GICCominato.
Just strange it somehow changed somewhere along the line…

[AngelaGrace56]

Thank you so much Angela, this all means so much to me!

So I guess then after the marriage of Sebastiano and Rosaria that Giuseppe had his surname changed to either GIAcominato or GICCominato.
Just strange it somehow changed somewhere along the line…

You are so welcome!!! It was a privilege to have been part of this. Not sure about the surname "alias's" and mispellings. It is strange. I can see how GICCominato might be misheard and so miswritten as GIAcominato somewhere along the line though. Further research......

Take care.

Angela

[apitaloaus]

Today I finally arrived in Francofonte and visited the cemetary.
It was successful as I found Guiseppe’s burial record!
He died on July 25, 1945.

Unfortunately there was no marked grave stone as apparently they moved his grave many times and the records are not kept perfectly.
The book you can see being looked at by the officer is barely staying intact!

Anyway it was all worth it to see his home town.

Angela - what documents do you think we can look for to see when he changed his name to ‘Giacominato’ ?
Hopefully to solve the mystery of why the name changed!

[AngelaGrace56]

Fantastic!!! Thanks for sharing this pic and also Lorenzo's grave stone that you located and posted on the other thread. (What was the grave stone made from. The frame looked like it was probably just tinted cement but was the main part made of, where the inscription is and also the picture of Lorenzo (great pic). The grave stone looks to be in really good condition, apart from some cracks in the cement. Yes, I agree that Alfonso would've been buried in Naro where he died, but I doubt very much that his stone/grave would still be there after so many years. It sounds like you hare having such an interesting time.


Angela