Birth Record - Standard Italian?

[Marconucci]

I have a birth record from Calabria (Serra San Bruno) 1868 that I need translated. I've not been able to find anybody to hire who is able to decipher this old Italian script, mostly because of the handwriting itself, but it's got me wondering:

is this standard Italian? As far back as 1868 I wonder if this is more of a local dialect? I've been learning the language slowly over the past year and have gotten very interested in dialects and the history of the language.

If anyone can assist with the translation of this document, let me know <3

Top Right (Raffaele Candeloro):
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=726606

[AngelaGrace56]

I have a birth record from Calabria (Serra San Bruno) 1868 that I need translated. I've not been able to find anybody to hire who is able to decipher this old Italian script, mostly because of the handwriting itself, but it's got me wondering:

is this standard Italian? As far back as 1868 I wonder if this is more of a local dialect? I've been learning the language slowly over the past year and have gotten very interested in dialects and the history of the language. No, it's not local dialect. The style is a little different to what I'm use to but basically the same.

If anyone can assist with the translation of this document, let me know <3

Top Right (Raffaele Candeloro):
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=726606

Birth No 34: Raffaele Candeloro

Registered in Serra San Bruno on 8 October 1868

Starting on line 8:

Appearing was Michele Candeloro, son of Raffaele, 30 yo, bracciale (day labourer), living in Serra S. Bruno, who presented a baby boy to me, who was born day 6 of the current month (6 October 1868), from his wife Pasqualina Carchidi, (the daughter of deceased Michele?), a thirty year old, living with him, in this town. The baby was given the name of Raffaele.

The last paragraph there is basically just names of those who were present at the birth registration as witnesses, who didn’t sign the document because they were unable to write.

Angela

[bbivona]

And in answer to your other question, it's all standard Italian, written in the normal way birth records read at the time, just with difficult handwriting at first look. The ones that are 100% handwritten can be hard because you don't any printed text to help orient you. I agree with Angela, Pasqualina Carchidi is shown as daughter of deceased Michele.

[AngelaGrace56]

And in answer to your other question, it's all standard Italian, written in the normal way birth records read at the time, just with difficult handwriting at first look. The ones that are 100% handwritten can be hard because you don't any printed text to help orient you. I agree with Angela, Pasqualina Carchidi is shown as daughter of deceased Michele.

I also think that the records often contain "soft" "legal jargon" (my words) and that's what often makes them harder to read and interpret, even if you have studied Italian. After a while you just get use to it. Just my observation and thinking.

Angela

[Marconucci]

Thank you both. I was able to figure out the October 8 date but I assumed that was the birth date so this is very helpful. Raffaele later married a Carchidi, very small town so probably a cousin?

Ive been having trouble replying, for some reason it keeps saying my IP address is not trusted. Had to set up a VPN and use a private browser to get this through!

[AngelaGrace56]

Thank you both. I was able to figure out the October 8 date but I assumed that was the birth date so this is very helpful. Raffaele later married a Carchidi, very small town so probably a cousin?

Ive been having trouble replying, for some reason it keeps saying my IP address is not trusted. Had to set up a VPN and use a private browser to get this through!

The first date shown is the birth registration date. Then scroll down and find the word "Comparso" and the next date should be the date of birth. It's much easier to see with the preprinted forms.

If you are still having problems posting on the forum send a message to: info@italiangenealogy.com to let them know. You could also try clearing your cookies first or shutting down your internet for a few minutes to see if that changes things.

Here is the marriage record you spoke of, in case you don't have it:

Marriage No 26 – Raffaele Candeloro and Maria Giuseppa Carchidi

Serra San Bruno – 29 September 1894

Groom: Raffaele Candeloro, 25 yo, Carbonaio (coal seller), born and residing in Serra San Bruno, son of the deceased Michele, who resided in Sera San Bruno, when living, and of Pasqualina Carchidi, residing in Serra San Bruno.

Bride: Maria Giuseppa Carchidi, 18 yo, filatrice, born and residing Serra S. Bruno, daughter of Bruno Carchidi and Maria Schiafone, both residing Serra S. Bruno.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=726606

and

1875 Birth No 153 of Maria Giuseppa Carchidi:

Registered and born 15 November 1875, Serra San Bruno:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=726606

Let me know if you need this translated.

Angela

[PippoM]

I also think that the records often contain "soft" "legal jargon" (my words) and that's what often makes them harder to read and interpret, even if you have studied Italian. After a while you just get use to it. Just my observation and thinking.

Angela

Yes, Italian style of prose in the 1800's was very bombastic, and that reflects with more emphasis in official documents.

[AngelaGrace56]

I also think that the records often contain "soft" "legal jargon" (my words) and that's what often makes them harder to read and interpret, even if you have studied Italian. After a while you just get use to it. Just my observation and thinking.

Angela

Yes, Italian style of prose in the 1800's was very bombastic, and that reflects with more emphasis in official documents.

Thanks for chiming in Pippo. It's interesting - I wonder whether this type of thing happened in other countries as well. Until quite recently (and maybe it still happens) legal documents like Wills were written in what seemed like very old English. I remember seeing my father's Will, after he had passed, which was quite hard to understand, because of how it was written. My husband was terminally ill at the time, and we decided it was best to update our Wills in case something happened to me (we had three very young children). After seeing the way dad's Will had been written, we specifically asked our Lawyer to write the Wills in everyday English, which is what he did. So so much better.

Angela

[Konliner]

[/quote]

Thanks for chiming in Pippo. It's interesting - I wonder whether this type of thing happened in other countries as well. Until quite recently (and maybe it still happens) legal documents like Wills were written in what seemed like very old English. I remember seeing my father's Will, after he had passed, which was quite hard to understand, because of how it was written. My husband was terminally ill at the time, and we decided it was best to update our Wills in case something happened to me (we had three very young children). After seeing the way dad's Will had been written, we specifically asked our Lawyer to write the Wills in everyday English, which is what he did. So so much better.

Angela
[/quote]

That is the right choice. We should retain them, which are extremely important and have long-term legal value