Help with deciphering script - death

[RosaVita]

Anyone help with deciphering the entry of Matteas death please?

“Italia, Venezia, Venezia, Stato Civile (Tribunale), 1871-1930", , FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6RVP-SDZC : Thu Apr 11 15:52:14 UTC 2024), Entry for Mattea Tramontana and Rosolino Tramontana, 22 Nov 1910.

[AngelaGrace56]

Death No 1403 - Mattea Tramontana
Registered Venezia 22 November 1910

Appearing was Luigia Facchinetti, 40 yo, casalinga, and Luigi Zen?, 54 yo, domestico, both living in Venezia. They reported that at 6.30 am today, in the house in Santa Croce, No 328A, Mattea Tramontana, 8 months old, died. She was born and residing in Venezia, the daughter of Rosolino Tramontana, masinaio, living in Palermo and mother not known.

Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

Death No 1403 - Mattea Tramontana
Registered Venezia 22 November 1910

Appearing was Luigia Facchinetti, 40 yo, casalinga, and Luigi Zen?, 54 yo, domestico, both living in Venezia. They reported that at 6.30 am today, in the house in Santa Croce, No 328A, Mattea Tramontana, 8 months old, died. She was born and residing in Venezia, the daughter of Rosolino Tramontana, marinaio, living in Palermo and mother not known.

Angela

Here is a little bit more information for you taken from Mattea's birth record:

Birth No 1017 – Mattea Tramontana
Registered 29 March 1910

The birth was registered by Maria Contanelli Ferrari, 42 yo, midwife living in Venice. She reported that Mattea was born 1 am on 25 March 1910 in the house in Dorsoduro, No 2290, from the union of Rosolino Tramontana, 49 yo, unmarried man, a nostromo maritimo (ship’s officer in charge of equipment/crew, I think, not seen this before), living and residing in Palermo, (from his union with) an unmarried woman, who was not related to him in any way etc that would later prevent recognition of the child. The baby girl was given the names Mattea Maria Rosa.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=2043809

Nostromo: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostromo

Angela

[erudita74]

@Angela

When I first looked at the record for Mattea, I thought that Rosolino’s occupation was marinaio and not masinaio as you typed. If you compare what you thought was a lower case letter s” in that word to the lower case “s” in other words in that document, in all the other words with an “s,” the letter s is formed differently from how it is formed in this occupation. So I think that now that you found another document with a maritime related occupation, I’m convinced that the occupation in Mattea’s record is marinaio.

Erudita

[AngelaGrace56]

@Angela

When I first looked at the record for Mattea, I thought that Rosolino’s occupation was marinaio and not masinaio as you typed. If you compare what you thought was a lower case letter s” in that word to the lower case “s” in other words in that document, in all the other words with an “s,” the letter s is formed differently from how it is formed in this occupation. So I think that now that you found another document with a maritime related occupation, I’m convinced that the occupation in Mattea’s record is marinaio.

Erudita

Absolutely!!! I totally agree and that is why I changed it this morning after finding the birth record. You might not have noticed as I didn't colour it. I thought I had. Take a look at this morning's post here where I have reposted my translation of the death record with the correction.

I've just sent you an email btw.

Angela

[erudita74]

Sorry, Angela, I didn’t see the correction you had made. Actually, when you quoted yourself, the letter “r” is in blue. I’m not color blind like my younger son, but I was looking at your original translation and didn’t realize you had quoted yourself below that.

BTW, saw your email right after I posted what I did.

[AngelaGrace56]

Erudita, I can only see the blue highlight if I zoom in on it. Glad you received my email

Angela

[RosaVita]

Death No 1403 - Mattea Tramontana
Registered Venezia 22 November 1910

Appearing was Luigia Facchinetti, 40 yo, casalinga, and Luigi Zen?, 54 yo, domestico, both living in Venezia. They reported that at 6.30 am today, in the house in Santa Croce, No 328A, Mattea Tramontana, 8 months old, died. She was born and residing in Venezia, the daughter of Rosolino Tramontana, marinaio, living in Palermo and mother not known.

Angela

Here is a little bit more information for you taken from Mattea's birth record:

Birth No 1017 – Mattea Tramontana
Registered 29 March 1910

The birth was registered by Maria Contanelli Ferrari, 42 yo, midwife living in Venice. She reported that Mattea was born 1 am on 25 March 1910 in the house in Dorsoduro, No 2290, from the union of Rosolino Tramontana, 49 yo, unmarried man, a nostromo maritimo (ship’s officer in charge of equipment/crew, I think, not seen this before), living and residing in Palermo, (from his union with) an unmarried woman, who was not related to him in any way etc that would later prevent recognition of the child. The baby girl was given the names Mattea Maria Rosa.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=2043809

Nostromo: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostromo

Angela

@angela thank you for this, how did you find the birth certificate?
I was told that a Maria Striano was the wife of Rosolino. Is there any chance we can search for anything on this or her name?

Cinzia

[AngelaGrace56]

@angela thank you for this, how did you find the birth certificate?
I was told that a Maria Striano was the wife of Rosolino. Is there any chance we can search for anything on this or her name?

Cinzia

Hi Cinzia

Well, it wasn’t so hard because I knew from the death record that Mattea was only eight months old, when she died in November 1910 so knew she had to be born circa March 1910 so checked the indices for the exact date and went from there.
I looked here: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=2043809

It’s rather a complex story because Rosolino has reported that he is 49 and that he is “celibe” which some people translate to “has never been married before” while others just say “unmarried” or “single”. Anyways, we understand that he is unmarried and has fathered Mattea Maria Rosa to an unmarried woman. He then dies two years later in 1912. You have said that he was married to a Maria Striano and had other children. So has he lied about his marital status or had he and Maria Striano lived commonlaw etc? Do you know the dates the other children were born and where​ etc?

Angela

[RosaVita]

@angela thank you for this, how did you find the birth certificate?
I was told that a Maria Striano was the wife of Rosolino. Is there any chance we can search for anything on this or her name?

Cinzia

Hi Cinzia

Well, it wasn’t so hard because I knew from the death record that Mattea was only eight months old, when she died in November 1910 so knew she had to be born circa March 1910 so checked the indices for the exact date and went from there.
I looked here: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=2043809

It’s rather a complex story because Rosolino has reported that he is 49 and that he is “celibe” which some people translate to “has never been married before” while others just say “unmarried” or “single”. Anyways, we understand that he is unmarried and has fathered Mattea Maria Rosa to an unmarried woman. He then dies two years later in 1912. You have said that he was married to a Maria Striano and had other children. So has he lied about his marital status or had he and Maria Striano lived commonlaw etc? Do you know the dates the other children were born and where​ etc?

Angela

I know two of the children one is my great aunt Vita born in Venice 1905 died in Naples 1987. My Nonna Maria Rosa born 1912 not sure 1951?
They had two other children Rafaele and Giovani but have no dates for these. I never knew the baby’s name but I have a photo of her.

Thank you for your help @Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

@angela thank you for this, how did you find the birth certificate?
I was told that a Maria Striano was the wife of Rosolino. Is there any chance we can search for anything on this or her name?

Cinzia

Hi Cinzia

Well, it wasn’t so hard because I knew from the death record that Mattea was only eight months old, when she died in November 1910 so knew she had to be born circa March 1910 so checked the indices for the exact date and went from there.
I looked here: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=2043809

It’s rather a complex story because Rosolino has reported that he is 49 and that he is “celibe” which some people translate to “has never been married before” while others just say “unmarried” or “single”. Anyways, we understand that he is unmarried and has fathered Mattea Maria Rosa to an unmarried woman. He then dies two years later in 1912. You have said that he was married to a Maria Striano and had other children. So has he lied about his marital status or had he and Maria Striano lived commonlaw etc? Do you know the dates the other children were born and where​ etc?

Angela

I know two of the children one is my great aunt Vita born in Venice 1905 died in Naples 1987. My Nonna Maria Rosa born 1912 not sure 1951?
They had two other children Rafaele and Giovani but have no dates for these. I never knew the baby’s name but I have a photo of her.

Thank you for your help @Angela

Hi again

You'll have to be a bit more specific. There are literally hundreds of births in the large city of Venice and unfortunately there is no index for 1905. I think it must have been poor quality so wasn't filmed. It would take forever to go through each record. Do you know the month and day Vita was born, and was it definitely 1905 or is that just an estimate. I did look at 1906 index but didn't see anything there. Unfortunately 1912 births are not currently on line so we can't search for Maria Rosa's birth record. Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings.

Angela

[RosaVita]

I’ve not had any luck with finding anything too, thank you for trying Angela.
Vita’s birth 21/2/1905 (I know this from a baptism in Chiesa di S. Nicola di Tolentino Venice document we have).
Maria Rosa is 1/6/1912…
I can’t understand why the mother’s name wouldn’t have been named. I thought it was more the other way round?
I have photos of the children of Rosalino, himself and “wife” Rosa with their names on the back but no record I can find on them online when they were born or died.

[AngelaGrace56]

Here is Vita's Birth Record.

1905 Birth No 664 – Vita Tramontana
Registered 23 February 1905
Appearing was Rosolino Tramontana, 45 yo, marittino, living in Palermo, who reported that at 4 am on 21 February 1905, in the house in Santa Croce, No 398, from his union with an unmarried woman, who was not related etc....

Annotation. She died in Naples on 15 January 1987. Act No 8 Part 1
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=2043809

So it's the same scenario. It's possible that they hadn't had a Civil Marriage but had been married in the Church.

Edit to Add: The baby girl was given the names Vita, Antonina.

So I rechecked and there are no records online for 1912. I checked to see whether there were any Church Records on line to search for a marriage record but there don't appear to be. It's getting late here so I'll see what I can find later tomorrow.

Angela

[RosaVita]

THANK YOU

[AngelaGrace56]

I went through the birth indices working back to 1892 looking for other children born to Rosolino Tramontano but didn't find any.

Angela