SCANNING OLD DOCUMENTS

[mezzogiorno62]

IS ANYONE OUT THERE ABLE TO SCAN AND MAKE THESE DOCUMENTS CLEARER AND MORE READABLE? FADED INK IS THE MAIN PROBLEM. XEROX COPIERS DON'T WORK. ALL RECORDS OF MARRIAGE AND DEATH RECORDS. AVELLINO AND MESSINA. 1. 1803-GIOVANNI RICCA AND ROSA MARTINO LAPIO AVELLINO 2 1865-ROSALIA MANCUSO PALERMO PALERMO ANY HELP MOST APPRECIATED

[parkergambino]

Can you provide links on-line sources for these?

Parker

[mezzogiorno62]

the marriage record is a pre civil registration church record which isn't available in any online database-i was sent a copy via attachment from a priest in avellino years ago and most of these parishes will never be made available online-and the death record was in palermo but no idea what section of the city as palermo is divided into sections. i forget how i accessed that record but probably through the online indexes of births marriages and deaths for palermo. not very techy when it comes to links. better at actual research. the ink is so faded its virtually impossible to read. same with the old church records in quebec which i've researched on my mothers french canadian lines. and these go back into the 1600s and 1700s,much older than the italian civil records. not so much translating or even deciphering the writing but the actual quality of the documents. you actually sent me a link that led me to the 1865 death record in palermo a few years ago-i found the link-but when i click on it i just get a page with some kind of privacy/security warning which makes no sense.

[Farassino]

In the decennial index 1856-1865 it’s line 8 from the bottom. Page 688.
https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... 6D?lang=en

[mezzogiorno62]

thanks for checking. this is the index i remember seeing years ago. but how does it lead to the actual document? as palermo is such a large city its divided into sections. the section isn't noted in the index reference. where to start. the registry or the fonds? just need to find death records for city of palermo for 1865. from there i can use the index information to find the entry.

[Farassino]

Here it is. #1976
https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... 15/w9m6N9Q

[mezzogiorno62]

THANKS FOR THE HELP. VERY GOOD AT RESEARCH ONCE I FIND THE CORRECT RECORDS BUT NOT VERY TECHY-AND SOME OF THE WAYS THESE RECORDS ARE COMPILED ARE CONFUSING,ESPECIALLY IN THE LARGE CITIES. SMALL COMUNES WITH TINY POPULATIONS NO PROBLEM,BUT LARGE CITIES LIKE NAPLES OR PALERMO ARE SET UP DIFFERENTLY. I STARTED OUT USING THE FILMED RECORDS OVER 25 YEARS AGO AT LDS. YOU HAD TO SCROLL THROUGH FILMS BY HAND ON FILM READERS. THE ANTENATI SITE IS AN IMPROVEMENT AS THE RECORDS ARE BROKEN DOWN AND MORE EASILY SEARCHABLE,BUT AS I SAID,IN THE LARGER CITIES,IT GETS MORE CONFUSING. JUST FOR REFERENCE,HOW DID YOU PROCEED? WHAT WERE YOUR STEPS SO I CAN TRY AND FOLLOW THROUGH.

[parkergambino]

Mezzogiorno,

There was a thread regarding this several years ago:
https://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/ ... no#p284466

I don't think that it was me who sent you the link you refer to, perhaps it was from the master, "bbivona"

In that prior thread there is some discussion of crazy Palermo geography/recordkeeping. bbivona also reviews his sleuthing procedure. One of the links that he provides does not seem to work for me today, but the link for the actual death document #1976 - seems to be working:

http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0

This goes to the same page found by Farassino.

Regarding the other record, unavailable on line, would it be possible to forward the actual attachment that you received from the priest? It may provide a better look than the photo(?) you have posted. You could put it up for grabs here, or send it to me in a PM.

Going forward, please keep better track of the outcome of your posting requests, to avoid having responders repeating efforts for what has already been resolved!

Parker

[mezzogiorno62]

we did connect a thread of discussion for this record in 2018. just wanted to access it again to see if i could reimage a clearer copy. farassino sent me the link as you just did. when i clicked on your link it wouldn't go through and said my connection wasn't private. that makes no sense. the link normally goes right to the www.antenati or familysearch websites. both public websites so what is meant by my connection isn't private? then when i tried to go back to the italiangenealogy site i was blocked by a"bad request" page and had to start all over again. pull up the italiangenealogy site and start all over. must be some technical issues with this website. keep getting messages like"your connection isn't private" and"bad request' which make no sense as clicking on any link to the antenati or family search sites should go through.

[Farassino]

In late 2021 the Portale Antenati has been updated and renewed and a new version of it was put online. Many of the older links are no longer active.
That is why you get that sort of message when you try to access them.

[mezzogiorno62]

they should update users on these issues.it would be great if you could skip pages in the records searches as well,but the way its set up,if there are 1000 pages,you can only skip ahead 5 pages or so at a time,which takes forever in a large comune. like the way it works in family search-enter the page number and jump to that instead of having to scroll at a snails pace at antenati. that would be a major improvement. even using the old mictofilm readers,which i started with nearly 30 years ago,it was easier. just fast forward.

[parkergambino]

Are you saying that the link I provided yesterday,

https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... 15/w9m6N9Q

isn't working for you today, it's giving you those error messages? Please check once more using that exact URL.

If the problem persists, I suggest that the issue is not with the Antenati website, perhaps something about your computer is contributing to the incompatibility.

As for what Antenati should do to make it easier for users, personally I find that notion laughable. Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. I find it more useful to direct my efforts to working with the system that is in place. It may not always be intuitive. From your description of efforts to scroll through records, etc. it sounds like you have not mastered the system, and frustration has got the best of you.

There are other suggestions for how to navigate through records. I'm not going to launch into a lengthy description here. If you would like a bit of tutorial I'm willing to help you out. But it would involve sharing a screen on a Zoom or other video communication, to show you. A video record of the demonstration can be made so you would have it for reference. If you think this can be managed, send me a PM.

Parker

[mezzogiorno62]

too techy for me. i'm old school. at 76 it is what it is. i started research back in the days of scrolling films and consulting books. using 2 20 year old windows 7 laptops. just my equipment would preclude me from proceeding further. i really have done all i can with both my italian research and my french canadia research. i still like going back into my old research modes but every time these sites change up,supposedly for the better,it never works for me. one step forward and nine backward. i knew and understood the ways i learned with but its not like that today. thanks for the offer but as someone using a flip phone instead of a finger phone (the touch screen type that people use primarily for photos,music,and texting and 99% of the world uses) you can see my level of technology and adaptability.. just now in trying to reply to your post i've gotten 3 bad request notifications,meaning i have to start all over again and go back to this site and try to repost. never had this problem until now. makes no sense. why is trying to respond to a message here considered a bad request??? same with links others send me. until recently never had a problem clicking on the link then accessing the record. now all i get is some privacy error message and telling me to go back to safety. something definitely wrong here.